Charlie Hebdo shooting in France
#31
Re: Charlie Hebdo shooting in France
This is what I mean - yes there are certain hardline mosques as there are certain hardline churches or other groups. With reference to condemnation of the acts, I have read plenty of condemnation today online from faith representatives like Tariq Ramadan (UK), Ismael Menk (UAE)and others - there was a whole social media campaign recently #notinmyname that reflected mainstream Muslim opinion against extremism. It is there but it isn't trendy enough for widespread awareness. There is a rubric that Muslims=bad and against everyone, which isn't true.
Countries that play with fire often get burned.
#32
Re: Charlie Hebdo shooting in France
How much do you know of the Muslim community? Even in the FBI report where they planted agents acting as extremists to try to catch them - ended up that the Muslims reported the agents in all but a couple of cases where they seemed to radicalise a few teenage boys instead.
It doesn't matter if Muslim groups speak out against terrorism in the US, no one reports it in the media and that makes everyone think they condone it.
It doesn't matter if Muslim groups speak out against terrorism in the US, no one reports it in the media and that makes everyone think they condone it.
#33
Re: Charlie Hebdo shooting in France
Any 'religion' in which females are inherently second class with less rights than males is absolutely bad.
In my opinion.
(And that's not just Islam.)
(Actually I think all religion is bad anyway. It's time humanity moved on from believing that the supernatural is an active influence in life. In my opinion.)
In my opinion.
(And that's not just Islam.)
(Actually I think all religion is bad anyway. It's time humanity moved on from believing that the supernatural is an active influence in life. In my opinion.)
#34
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Aug 2013
Location: Rochester, New York
Posts: 1,125
Re: Charlie Hebdo shooting in France
You have misread or misconstrued what I wrote. "Christian" terrorists are almost universally ostracized by the Christian community. The same is not true of the muslim community, and the "notinmyname" campaign was notable exactly because it was so unusual and such a small minority of the billion muslims around the world. ..... And you apparently have no counter to my observation about the Pope, Arch Bishop of Canterbury etc. vs the Mad Mullahs of Iran, ...... because there is no counter, it's every bit as bad as it looks: chalk v cheese.
I just think that generalising an entire faith isn't helpful and plays into the hands of the disturbed individuals who go out and commit atrocities. My comment was more to show the other side of the coin, that is often forgotten when such awful things happen.
Last edited by hoffage123; Jan 7th 2015 at 6:54 pm.
#35
Banned
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 5,154
Re: Charlie Hebdo shooting in France
I agree with some of your sentiment, but you (and Novocastrian) are still oblivious as to how tough it is going to be to deal with this situation that has been brewing for many decades. ..... And saying that the policeman was "executed" is (very small) part of the PC nonsense that led us to where we are today: he wasn't "executed", he was murdered, plain and simple!
#36
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Aug 2013
Location: Rochester, New York
Posts: 1,125
Re: Charlie Hebdo shooting in France
How much do you know of the Muslim community? Even in the FBI report where they planted agents acting as extremists to try to catch them - ended up that the Muslims reported the agents in all but a couple of cases where they seemed to radicalise a few teenage boys instead.
It doesn't matter if Muslim groups speak out against terrorism in the US, no one reports it in the media and that makes everyone think they condone it.
It doesn't matter if Muslim groups speak out against terrorism in the US, no one reports it in the media and that makes everyone think they condone it.
#38
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Aug 2013
Location: Rochester, New York
Posts: 1,125
Re: Charlie Hebdo shooting in France
On a basic level, Islam granted the rights for Women to work, and vote, and own their own inheritance many hundreds of years before Western civilisation did. There is a problem today with certain people who call themselves scholars redefining things within an extreme framework, which I do acknowledge.
Hoffage
#39
Account Closed
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 2
Re: Charlie Hebdo shooting in France
Reasonably certain things will get worse, much worse.
#40
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Aug 2013
Location: Rochester, New York
Posts: 1,125
Re: Charlie Hebdo shooting in France
There is no doubt in anyone's mid that the Saudis were supporting the Sunni insurgency in Iraq and the bad guys insurgency in Syria. Then ISIS took over control and the Saudis built a 600 mile fence between Iraq and Saudi Arabia to protect the Kingdom and recently a border post was attacked and several Saudi military were killed by ISIS supporters.
Countries that play with fire often get burned.
Countries that play with fire often get burned.
It works both ways.
#41
Re: Charlie Hebdo shooting in France
How much do you know of the Muslim community? Even in the FBI report where they planted agents acting as extremists to try to catch them - ended up that the Muslims reported the agents in all but a couple of cases where they seemed to radicalise a few teenage boys instead.
It doesn't matter if Muslim groups speak out against terrorism in the US, no one reports it in the media and that makes everyone think they condone it.
It doesn't matter if Muslim groups speak out against terrorism in the US, no one reports it in the media and that makes everyone think they condone it.
In France, the muslim leaders have all spoken out against this atrocity. There are 5ish million muslims living in France just trying to do what the rest of us are doing: get jobs; raise kids; be healthy.. They are discriminated against daily and people who should know better (teachers) think it's not discrimination.
The vigils tonight are taking place all over France and from what I can see, they are calm and include all religions. I think that if the people of France do not want this incident to be turned into an excuse for retaliation against normal people who just happen to be muslim then the least we can do is be respectful.
I'm turning off now, I'm sad for France tonight but I'm also sad at seeing some of the comments on this forum.
#43
Account Closed
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 2
Re: Charlie Hebdo shooting in France
I don't want to get into a theological discussion, because I am honestly not an expert or anything - but aside from the media gubbins and maybe some websites, have you spoken to anyone who is Muslim and learned about the religion to clarify any misconceptions? Verses read out of context or taking incidents like the one today as indicative of an unequal faith, and also not seeing on a practical day to day basis how people who hold that faith live their values may be why you feel the way you do.
On a basic level, Islam granted the rights for Women to work, and vote, and own their own inheritance many hundreds of years before Western civilisation did. There is a problem today with certain people who call themselves scholars redefining things within an extreme framework, which I do acknowledge.
Hoffage
On a basic level, Islam granted the rights for Women to work, and vote, and own their own inheritance many hundreds of years before Western civilisation did. There is a problem today with certain people who call themselves scholars redefining things within an extreme framework, which I do acknowledge.
Hoffage
It is a combination of religion and the societies it eminates in, you can not really divide the two.
Most of us have grown up in a post Religious society and think that is the norm, what is acceptable.
It is not.
#44
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 41,518
Re: Charlie Hebdo shooting in France
Islam does not inherently make females inferior.
#45
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 41,518
Re: Charlie Hebdo shooting in France
In France, the muslim leaders have all spoken out against this atrocity. There are 5ish million muslims living in France just trying to do what the rest of us are doing: get jobs; raise kids; be healthy.. They are discriminated against daily and people who should know better (teachers) think it's not discrimination.
The vigils tonight are taking place all over France and from what I can see, they are calm and include all religions. I think that if the people of France do not want this incident to be turned into an excuse for retaliation against normal people who just happen to be muslim then the least we can do is be respectful.
I'm turning off now, I'm sad for France tonight but I'm also sad at seeing some of the comments on this forum.