2016 Election

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Old Dec 26th 2016, 3:26 am
  #13336  
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Default Re: 2016 Election

Originally Posted by dc koop
Good for Obama and the US to abstain during the UN vote against Israel. Why is it that we always vetoed UN resolutions when it comes to Israel? Netanyahu is an obscene little man and a land grabber and we send billions every year in aid to that piffling little nation. Money that is essentially needed here in the States.
There's been some discussion that the abstention of the US on the Israel resolution (the US has vetoed the last 3 resolutions that had similar language) was influenced by Netanyahu's repeated promises over Obama's term that he would scale back settlement construction and work to find a two-state solution, but has ignored those promises - rather, he's been pushing the settlements forward to make their construction seem like the 'new normal' for Israel.

There's also been some hypotheses that the Obama administration was going to veto the resolution, and then Netanyahu went behind Obama's back and got Trump to weigh in, which prompted the Obama administration to move their position to 'abstain' to tweak Netanyahu and Trump's nose for failing to respect that 'there's only one president at a time'.
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Old Dec 26th 2016, 3:29 am
  #13337  
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Default Re: 2016 Election

Originally Posted by moneypenny20
Hot water. My apologies.
PV is not a good way to hear water,
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Old Dec 26th 2016, 5:05 am
  #13338  
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Default Re: 2016 Election

Originally Posted by Boiler
PV is not a good way to hear water,
Works for us. Why do 'they' encourage solar water heating if it's not 'good'? What wrong with it?
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Old Dec 26th 2016, 5:11 am
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Default Re: 2016 Election

Originally Posted by moneypenny20
Works for us. Why do 'they' encourage solar water heating if it's not 'good'? What wrong with it?
Using PV is a waste of high quality energy, not solar hot water.
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Old Dec 26th 2016, 4:28 pm
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Default Re: 2016 Election

Originally Posted by RoadWarriorFromLP
When nuclear power goes awry, then that's what it looks like.

You can't ignore the nasty bits just because they are inconvenient. Nor would I presume that we will not eventually have another incident that is even worse.
Every single Nuclear Power plant in operation today is based on very old designs. There hasn't been any R&D to speak of for decades for the 'next generation', which would be radically different in design. We have a lot of catching up to do, in terms of R&D. The problem is the issue has been such a hot potato, politically, that no government has been willing to spend the money needed for this effort.

There was a very informative documentary a year or two ago that convinced me of the need for Nuclear Power. Essentially, we can develop all the wind, solar, tide, etc power we want, and conserve like crazy, but we won't have enough power to sustain the billions of people who are entering the 'modern age' in places like India and China.

Rather than bury our heads in the sand and refuse to even investigate modern approaches, we should be aggressively pursuing the best possible approach to modern Nuclear Power.
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Old Dec 26th 2016, 5:00 pm
  #13341  
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Default Re: 2016 Election

Originally Posted by dakota44
Wrong on so many levels. Safe waste disposal? A pipe dream. The overwhelming amount of waste is still stored on site in cooling tanks. The cost to build..now at 9 billion. Decommissioning..from half a billion and up if you are lucky..


The Cost of Nuclear Power | Union of Concerned Scientists
9 billion would provide 300,000 homes with a 5kwh solar panel system. And that is before the price reduction that would occur from economies of scale.

Only nuclear power has the potential for making vast swaths of land uninhabitable for thousands of years...or water supplies unusable. Look up Indian Point...the disaster waiting to happen on the Hudson River...that would effect 20 million people and could render most of NYC unin habitable.

You can keep your nuclear power.
The current set of Nuclear Power plants are unquestionably problematic and will indeed have a huge downstream cost, for maintenance, waste disposal, and de-commissioning. That is not really a relevant argument against 'what could be' developed given the right amount of investment in R&D.

Complaining about the current state of Nuclear Power is a bit like complaining about the efficiency of cars in Cuba - cars that are frozen in time from the '50s. There was a huge investment in nuclear research during the 2nd world war, and later for the cold-war, for weapon purposes. All current plants are essentially spin-offs from that initiative. There is tremendous opportunity for smaller, safer designs but the lack of current research is making the whole issue a non-starter.

And as 'Sultan' pointed out, there were only 56 actual deaths from Chernobyl, the absolute worst disaster in history, at a plant known to be of poor design/operation.

No one is suggesting Nuclear Power is without issues. The cold, hard facts however suggest there is no viable alternative.

I've been reading an awful lot about the state of water in the 'West' (the entire 'South West', including CA, AZ). It's my conclusion that CA (at the very least) will have to invest in massive desalination efforts at some point in the not-too-distant future, and to do that, only Nuclear Power can provide the necessary energy.
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Old Dec 26th 2016, 5:20 pm
  #13342  
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Default Re: 2016 Election

In colorado a lot of the water used for farming has been redirected for housing, obviously there are limits on that and then of course most of the obviously arable land is being built on.

Seems most food is imported from places like CA.

Noticed there had been issues in Spain, the UK Supermarkets are flying in Salad stuff etc from the US.

Not sure how much renewable energy that uses.
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Old Dec 26th 2016, 6:57 pm
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Default Re: 2016 Election

Originally Posted by Boiler
In colorado a lot of the water used for farming has been redirected for housing, obviously there are limits on that and then of course most of the obviously arable land is being built on.

Seems most food is imported from places like CA.

Noticed there had been issues in Spain, the UK Supermarkets are flying in Salad stuff etc from the US.

Not sure how much renewable energy that uses.
There are some big, high-profile 'water exchange' deals going on in CA, notably San Diego has bought the rights to a lot of the farming water used in the inland "Imperial Valley'. However, as water use for farming is reduced, previously farmed land is drying up with significant environmental/health consequences. The farming that was performed was high in pesticide use. If you stop watering the land and let it 'go', a huge amount of toxic pesticide-laden dust is now released into the atmosphere. An interesting read is the story about the "Salton Sea", an accidental lake caused by runoff from agriculture, and now the biggest lake in CA (based on surface area). This is a well written introduction to the issue.

From this wikipedia article: "The rapidly shrinking sea was a "looming environmental and public health crisis". With the increased shrinkage, dust storms would increase and a rotten-egg smell could reach to the coastal cities"

I'm all for these water purchase deals. A large amount of CA's agricultural use of water is very wasteful and only viable because of hugely subsidized water from the various state and federal dams. CA grows grass that is sold to the middle east ... how crazy is that.

The biggest threat to CA's long term viability, though, is the extensive and aggressive use of groundwater by the farmers. Groundwater took thousands of years to accumulate, and is being pumped out at an alarming rate; it could be exhausted in a hundred years, or less depending on a variety of factors. Unlike the surface irrigation water (highly regulated), the use of groundwater is hardly regulated; you are allowed to drill for, and pump out, any water you can find below your property. Conservation is not on the farmers' minds. Without a significant increase in surface water, the long-term future of the agricultural economy is in jeopardy, and the chances of new, major dam projects is slim-to-none.
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Old Dec 26th 2016, 7:04 pm
  #13344  
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Default Re: 2016 Election

How many crops are left? I have seen a figure of 100 mentioned so that could be 50 years with 2 crops a year.

Ground water depletion is a major issue in CO, south side of Denver is mainly wells. CO water is based on forst in time, so a lot is owned by the older settlements, Denver Boulder etc, the newer ones have to buy rights at an increasing cost. I think it was down by Highland Ranch there was a mega development proposed. they have previously been able to get planning on the basis of buying rights later, now they need to show the rights in hand.
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