any comments ?

Old Apr 15th 2013, 6:53 pm
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/expat/exp...hai-women.html
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Old Apr 16th 2013, 2:50 am
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Default Re: any comments ?

The article covers a number of points but I presume you are referring to what they think is a new idea of ageing expats going with young Thai women? Well.... nothing new there. Certainly in Phuket it was the norm when I was there. Also nowadays some older expat women with young Thai guys.

If it works and they're both getting something out of it, why not. Up to them.
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Old Apr 20th 2013, 6:52 am
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Default Re: any comments ?

Wow - where to start?

First off I guess is the "Kwai" reference (Buffalo) - this is nicely explained in the article, however, it is not what Thais mean when they call someone a buffalo. It simply means stupid, and is a great insult (any comparing with animals is very insulting in the East, in Thailand there is only one worse insult and that is to refer to a women as a female dog).

Much of the rest of the article seems to be put together from posts from Teak Door! It may have been better to concentrate on one facet rather than jumping all over the place.

Education is poor here, and it will remain so for the foreseeable future. There is no impetus for change - the wealthy can afford good schools and the poor see little use in it beyond the basics (that of course is a result of poor education too). There is little political gain and not much chance of personal profit (corruption) in raising educational standards and it risks the status quo. It may also be noted that even wealthy Thais care less about education than connections - in a recent Times (London) publication Asian universities were ranked - 2 of Thailand's universities came in the top 100 in Asia (best was in the 40s if I remember - through to about 90 for the lowest ranked of the three). The interesting thing was that Thailand's so-called top university (Chulalongkorn University) came nowhere in the list. Ask a wealthy Thai in the know and they will tell you that that is not news, but they will still send their kids there. Why? Because all the most important people in the country do - so its where the best contacts are made. Not the best thinkers.

Thailand has almost complete employment - this is because there is practically no welfare state system (safety net) so it do or die. It is easy to open a stall selling 5 baht meat balls or fizzy drinks in a plastic bag. The government puts up no resistance to this, asking for few if any licenses, and by far the majority does not pay taxes. Most stalls in the many, many markets are staffed by family members of all ages. Indeed it is very hard finding workers for many jobs - and trades such as building imports workers from neighbouring countries because of this (yes, they are cheap too - but if Thais were starving on the streets of Bangkok, there would be many takers locally which are always a safer bet). Also cleaning staff, maid staff, and other domestic help (e.g. in hotels, hospitals, schools, shopping malls and private) are nearly always Burmese, Cambodian or Laos.

There is also the Thai work ethic - which is often very poor. With workers taking days off, not turning up without word, turning up late, spending all day texting and watching TV (or sleeping), taking supplies and produce, doing their own thing instead of policy (or what the boss said) - and so on. Bonuses often work backwards here to - in the west they are incentives, here they often mean the worker will take a few days off to spend it (and expects it again next time - it has in-effect become part of the pay package, and non payment will cause loss of face and a disgruntled worker). This is mostly education, but it is also very cultural - especially outside of Bangkok.

Women. It is interesting that the 2007 constitution, and its protections of women - is being thrown out by Thailand's first women prime minister, is it not? Saying that THIS law is a "guideline" is not understanding the natural elastic nature of law in this country - at least as far as the people (and police) see it. Every law is bent, bucked and broken at will - and if caught (and lacking the right connections) then can usually be sorted out with a handful of bills (penance!). Police here, like most countries, are reluctant to get in between domestic arguments - this can (and does) mean that violence ensues and women end up the worse for it (although it must be stated that Thai women usually have their own way for dealing with this - when the guy is asleep or comes home for dinner). Thai men of the lower classes are real drinkers here - every day I see Thai workers, including lorry, songtaew and tuktuk drivers, sitting at the table in the open air café across the road from me, with a litre bottle of Thai rum drinking until they are bright red and slurring - then going back to work. This is an all day event from 10am (when they open) until midnight (when they close). Thai men and generally not good drinkers - they get drunk easily and lose their cultural resistance to anger - this is why there is so much car rage and bar fights in a country known for it's cool heart and smiles.

I am always sceptical of questions such as "Do you think there is any circumstance when a husband is justified to beat his wife?" - it is easy to jump on the yes count. However, the same women asked "Do you think there is any circumstances where a wife might be justified doing harm to her husband" may yield similar results (especially when the article also talks about the number of members removed with a sharp knife when sleeping after a night on the town). While no one in their right mind would condone domestic violence in any form - one has to remember that this is an ancient culture with its own ways of keeping the peace and maintaining familial (or other) order. Like it or hate it, it is a fact. Can we really say we have it right in the west? Just look how many in-marriage murders there are in the west - how many broken families - how much rampant violent crime especially amongst the young - and how the PR brigade has tied the hands of law makers and enforcers.

Again the same can be said for unfaithfulness. Here it happens a lot (as said) - it is also forgiven or even accepted, that may not fit into the ideals of western culture (which of course is hypocrisy anyway), but it does keep families together - which is more important, casting that stone or kids being brought up with two parents?

It is funny to hear the usual misunderstood statements as to "Ill-educated and with no 'silver-spoon' connections, many Thai women’s only resource is themselves, and they know better than to squander their one advantage in a transactional economy...". Sorry, but that is just plain poppycock. Prostitution is very old and very ingrained here - there are far (and I mean far) more Thai women that only service Thai men here than those that tender to expats and tourists. Most are freelance - like nearly all - big brother/boyfriend/cousin may be a phone call away in case of trouble, and may profit from that, but he is not a pimp in the western terminology. Most sit on bar stalls or work in massage parlours and karaoke bars waiting for their punters, who pay the bar-fine (which is what the bar owner gets out of it) and go make money. Sure some are lured into it with fake jobs in the city - and some may even be trafficked (this is very low percentage as it is just not necessary here - or worth the risk in most cases) - but many are in it for the money that can be made. Even the top universities have problems with girls from wealthy families doing a bit of prostitution (sometimes in uniform if one believes the news papers) so they can get the latest IPhone etc. It is much more excepted here - something some westerners will just never understand.

Condom drives never work here. A few years ago there was a big drive (pre-Thaksin - so a good few years I guess ) where every hotel laid out towels, soap, and two condoms with every room - I remember my aged mother being quite bemused with being left condoms on her bed! Why don't they work? This is a little complex if one does not understand the Thai psych. It is the same reason they drive mopeds at night drunk, without their lights on, without crash helmets and without stopping at junctions - the underlying belief is that one will die on the day that it is time to die and there is nothing you can do about it (and you will probably come back again). So, Thai men (in particular) prefer no condoms and pay a bit more for sex without - and they never consider the possibilities simply because they know it is not going to happen to them! Thai girls have a quick rinse afterwards and keep up their pill regime to guard against pregnancy, and they are safe (yes, I know - this is their belief, not mine).

Old men with young women is not new either. It is age old (Mary married Joseph - he was not a young man - like in the movies - but around 30, she was probably about 12). The Profit Mohamed married a 9 year old girl (and had to go to a lot of trouble to make this happen too). Men can be virile their whole lives - Charlie Chaplin had a kid at 90! Women do not. Nature sees the strongest male take the choice of the most ripe females (often the youngest that are mature enough) - silver back gorillas for example. It is natural for men of all ages to want younger, more virile, women. Society makes laws to protect the too young (which is good!), and culture goes further to tell us age gap is important. There is nothing perverted about a man of any legal age wanting a legal but young partner - such moralities are cultural and arbitrary.

Of course, now women in human society have choices gorillas don't. They can chose (up to a degree of course) what partner to allow - and what is their ideal partner. Some may think "Brad Pit looks", others may think "tantric love god", and other may chose "man can provide for me and our children and help my family when they are too old to help themselves in this country with no state safety net".

Look at the Thai dating sites - ignoring the obvious bar girls plying their trade and teens after other teens - you find most are divorcee and widowed women in their late 20s up, often with kids, and no one to care for them or to support them. Little chance of meeting a Thai man that would or could do that (Thai men with the means have their choice of younger women with no attachments - and can simply replace them as they come out of that niche). Yes there are many who look for love on a bar stall and find a great pit to throw all their life savings, their heart and their pride into - there are also many happy marriages between older and younger women. Not all Thai women that look 19 are 19 - they age well here

All to often we see such articles talking of old men with young girls - thinking they are in love with each other only to be tossed away when they money dries up. This happens of course - but also fools still send their money to Nigerian princesses that have banking issues. I live here in Thailand - I have for many years - I have been involved with Thais wince I was a school boy. I know many couples here - mixed (mostly Thai women - but also the other way around too) - I did too when I lived in the UK - by far most are good solid, normal marriages. For example: My wife is 6 years younger than me - we met when we were in our 20s (OK she was 19 almost 20) - she had never even been in a bar (family would not allow it) nor had a boyfriend (strict family). We courted for 2 years before we wed - and were never alone together until we were engaged and the wedding booked! She was a trainee teacher and I was an IT contractor and restaurateur. We have been married 15 years this year and have two teenage daughters. For the first ten years I was the major bread winner - now I home school the kids and she is (she owns a café and also works nursing contracts back in the UK). Mine is a normal story of happily married people - that happen to be of different races - and this is true for many such relationships. However, we never hear of this - only the sexpats, old fools falling fail of gold diggers and abusive husbands. I just wish Laura had used her column inches to provide a balanced realistic view to counter the mass of ill-informed popular fiction - instead of jumping on the bandwagon.
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