Go Back   British Expats / General / Take it Outside!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old Oct 4th 2017, 4:15 pm   #2416
Resident Cynic
 
macliam's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2013
Location: Suffolk,UK; Alentejo, Portugal
Posts: 1,295
macliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond reputemacliam has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: What has p*ssed you off today...part II

Quote:
Originally Posted by robin1234 View Post
I had no idea British forces had been in Vietnam in that era.

I found this long piece in the Guardian, presumably an extract from the book The History Thieves. The article begins with the Vietnam campaign. My only beef with the article, is that the French forces in Vietnam after August 1945 were not "Vichy French." France had been liberated, and Germany and Japan had been defeated. Therefore, "Vichy French" had become "French."

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...cret-wars-oman
I think the truth lies between the two - the French troops appear to have been unprocessed vichy troops, not free French and the Japanese were definitely ex-combattants...... just using the forces they had at hand

However, no surprise that the British should be involved, not in aiding France regain its colony, but preventing the rolling-up of european empires. People have long memories, and few fond ones of the British colonialists.

Just to cap a dose of reality, perhaps a serving of the Five Techniques, makes you proud,eh?
__________________
Just because I'm paranoid, it doesn't mean they're NOT out to get me.....
macliam is online now   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 4th 2017, 4:17 pm   #2417
Heading for Poppyland
 
robin1234's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Location: North Norfolk and northern New York State
Posts: 8,932
robin1234 has a reputation beyond reputerobin1234 has a reputation beyond reputerobin1234 has a reputation beyond reputerobin1234 has a reputation beyond reputerobin1234 has a reputation beyond reputerobin1234 has a reputation beyond reputerobin1234 has a reputation beyond reputerobin1234 has a reputation beyond reputerobin1234 has a reputation beyond reputerobin1234 has a reputation beyond reputerobin1234 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: What has p*ssed you off today...part II

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeniB View Post
Apparently ? we were helping the French Government retain their territory in the Viet Minh part of Vietnam Its a mute point as to whether the Vichy French government had been officially disbanded by then? I have no idea. As this was cloaked under the Official secrets act .No one knew this war was going on,until soldiers wrote complaining about it to the Manchester Guardian. They fought alongside French, and Japanese who they released as POW's and then armed .
Definitely, the Vichy government ceased in 1944 when France was liberated. And apparently the French colonial government (formerly Vichy) in Vietnam ceased in March 1945, at which point the Japanese imposed direct rule under the so-called Vietnamese Empire. Presumably the Japanese were afraid of the French authorities in Vietnam going over to De Gaulle and the allies.
__________________
All true tea lovers not only like their tea strong, but like it a little stronger with each year that passes. George Orwell
robin1234 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 6th 2017, 8:50 am   #2418
GeniB 
BE Forum Addict
 
GeniB's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 4,132
GeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: What has p*ssed you off today...part II

Quote:
Originally Posted by robin1234 View Post
Definitely, the Vichy government ceased in 1944 when France was liberated. And apparently the French colonial government (formerly Vichy) in Vietnam ceased in March 1945, at which point the Japanese imposed direct rule under the so-called Vietnamese Empire. Presumably the Japanese were afraid of the French authorities in Vietnam going over to De Gaulle and the allies.
As I understand it from this book(History Thieves) The Viet Minh communists had formed a government the minute the Japanese were defeated ,with headquarters in Hanoi and Saigon. The British (It is claimed ? ) did not want to be the only Empirical force left in Asia so they agree to help the French retain Vietnam.The soldiers were told to use 'extreme force' which would include killing woman and children
The soldiers who wrote to the Manchester Guardian were horrified by this.not only fighting alongside the previous enemy,but the sight of wounded,maimed and dead civilians, Their actions started the following 30 yr conflict...

Last edited by GeniB; Oct 6th 2017 at 9:00 am.
GeniB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 6th 2017, 8:57 am   #2419
GeniB 
BE Forum Addict
 
GeniB's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 4,132
GeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: What has p*ssed you off today...part II

Quote:
Originally Posted by macliam View Post
I think the truth lies between the two - the French troops appear to have been unprocessed vichy troops, not free French and the Japanese were definitely ex-combattants...... just using the forces they had at hand

However, no surprise that the British should be involved, not in aiding France regain its colony, but preventing the rolling-up of european empires. People have long memories, and few fond ones of the British colonialists.

Just to cap a dose of reality, perhaps a serving of the Five Techniques, makes you proud,eh?
Didn't we invent concentration camps as well ?

My friend has read the book (History thieves) and warned me last night that I would be sickened by the chapter on Ireland.. No doubt... but not surprised.
When Noam Chompsky wrote that America was the biggest terrorist in the world ,he obviously hadn't read our history.
The last line I read yesterday . said that the British have been engaged in a war or conflict involving British troops, somewhere in the world. Every single year since 1930.
Being at war,using war like language to describe situations, seems to be like breathing to the Brits then
GeniB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 6th 2017, 9:02 am   #2420
EMR 
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 18,014
EMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: What has p*ssed you off today...part II

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeniB View Post
As I understand it from this book(History Thieves) The Viet Minh had formed a government the minute the Japanese were defeated ,with headquarters in Hanoi and Saigon. The British (It is claimed ? ) did not want to be the only Empirical force left in Asia so they agree to help the French retain Vietnam.The soldiers were told to use 'extreme force' which would include killing woman and children
The soldiers who wrote to the Manchester Guardian were horrified by this.not only fighting alongside the previous enemy,but the sight of wounded,maimed and dead civilians, Their actions started the following 30 yr conflict...
I suggest you read the 10,000day war ,it covers the Vietnam conflict from the last days of WW2 onwards.
The US and UK supported the local anti Japanese forces.
Your reading matter seems to be based more on prejudice rather than facts.
EMR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 6th 2017, 9:11 am   #2421
GeniB 
BE Forum Addict
 
GeniB's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 4,132
GeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: What has p*ssed you off today...part II

Quote:
Originally Posted by EMR View Post
I suggest you read the 10,000day war ,it covers the Vietnam conflict from the last days of WW2 onwards.
The US and UK supported the local anti Japanese forces.
Your reading matter seems to be based more on prejudice rather than facts.
Don't 'suggest' anything ERM.. My reading matter IS the facts. Yours is the doctored results of the pact between the governments and the press ,using the official secrets act as a cover.
Do you honestly believe that it took the 'good guys' 30 yrs of utter brutality to give the Vietnamese what THEY wanted.? Pleeezze
GeniB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 6th 2017, 10:21 am   #2422
EMR 
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 18,014
EMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: What has p*ssed you off today...part II

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeniB View Post
Don't 'suggest' anything ERM.. My reading matter IS the facts. Yours is the doctored results of the pact between the governments and the press ,using the official secrets act as a cover.
Do you honestly believe that it took the 'good guys' 30 yrs of utter brutality to give the Vietnamese what THEY wanted.? Pleeezze
The 10,000 day war is not an official history but the result of research by a Canadian author,
No official secrets act etc.
It is far from complimentary of any of the participants
Try reading something other than from the conspiracy theory section of literature.
Earlier this year I was in two of the countries devastated by the events starting in ww2.
There are and were no good guys.
Jusr few facts rather than conspiracy, in 1945 the French forces in Into China. ( not Vichy) Vichy no longer existed started to resist the occupying Japanese.
Many were imprisoned others started to co operate the the local resistance groups .
Yes the British did use the Japanese to help maintain order across much of S east Asia where previously pro Japanese groups sought to use the vacuumn of power to take power.
There are no conspiracies just historical events.
You .me and the authors of the books you read were not there ,had not just come through 5 years of brutal warfare.
None of these events is hidden away .

Last edited by EMR; Oct 6th 2017 at 10:50 am.
EMR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 8th 2017, 10:39 am   #2423
GeniB 
BE Forum Addict
 
GeniB's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 4,132
GeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: What has p*ssed you off today...part II

Quote:
Originally Posted by EMR View Post
The 10,000 day war is not an official history but the result of research by a Canadian author,
No official secrets act etc.
It is far from complimentary of any of the participants
Try reading something other than from the conspiracy theory section of literature.
Earlier this year I was in two of the countries devastated by the events starting in ww2.
There are and were no good guys.
Jusr few facts rather than conspiracy, in 1945 the French forces in Into China. ( not Vichy) Vichy no longer existed started to resist the occupying Japanese.
Many were imprisoned others started to co operate the the local resistance groups .
Yes the British did use the Japanese to help maintain order across much of S east Asia where previously pro Japanese groups sought to use the vacuumn of power to take power.
There are no conspiracies just historical events.
You .me and the authors of the books you read were not there ,had not just come through 5 years of brutal warfare.
None of these events is hidden away .
So what part of the book is conspiracy? what part of what I said prejudice ?
GeniB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 8th 2017, 10:42 am   #2424
GeniB 
BE Forum Addict
 
GeniB's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 4,132
GeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond reputeGeniB has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: What has p*ssed you off today...part II

More totally sickened and repulsed than pissed off. This is beyond anything we can imagine
.Please do not view if you are sensitive to blood and violent scenes
GeniB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 8th 2017, 10:44 am   #2425
BE Enthusiast
 
Joined: Mar 2017
Location: Buda
Posts: 890
Expatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond reputeExpatrick has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: What has p*ssed you off today...part II

Cyclists using the local cogwheel railway to climb the hill but not using the cycle racks provided (bar one). 20 or so bikes spread across the floor, across the doors, etc making life difficult for foot passengers.
Expatrick is online now   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 8th 2017, 11:48 am   #2426
Queen of Diplomacy
Premium Member
 
Dorothy's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: Nice beaver, eh?
Posts: 27,561
Dorothy has a reputation beyond reputeDorothy has a reputation beyond reputeDorothy has a reputation beyond reputeDorothy has a reputation beyond reputeDorothy has a reputation beyond reputeDorothy has a reputation beyond reputeDorothy has a reputation beyond reputeDorothy has a reputation beyond reputeDorothy has a reputation beyond reputeDorothy has a reputation beyond reputeDorothy has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: What has p*ssed you off today...part II

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeniB View Post
More totally sickened and repulsed than pissed off. This is beyond anything we can imagine
.Please do not view if you are sensitive to blood and violent scenes
https://youtu.be/b6EyQS3ZwCQ
Dear lord. There isn't enough eye bleach to erase that crap. Shouldn't this be in the conspiracy theory thread?
__________________
Time does not heal
It makes a half-stitched scar
That can be broken and again you feel
Grief as total as in its first hour
Dorothy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 8th 2017, 12:09 pm   #2427
EMR 
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 18,014
EMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond reputeEMR has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: What has p*ssed you off today...part II

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeniB View Post
So what part of the book is conspiracy? what part of what I said prejudice ?
Extreme force killing women and children.

My late father who fought through the war from Normandy until the end once told me when we were watching reports probably from the Vietnam war that in conflict survival of self and " mates " were the only thing that was in their mind.
When clearing towns they did not knock on the door and ask are there any German soldiers in there.
Houses were shelled, flamethrowers used, grenades thrown into cellars.
Only later would they discover that in some if those houses were women and children.
War is a filthy dirty business and it is not for those decades later to pass judgement on the majority of events of the time.
You enjoy the freedom you have because of the " extreme force " used by those who fought during those times.
EMR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 8th 2017, 12:27 pm   #2428
upsidedowner
Super Moderator
 
moneypenny20's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 61,351
moneypenny20 has a reputation beyond reputemoneypenny20 has a reputation beyond reputemoneypenny20 has a reputation beyond reputemoneypenny20 has a reputation beyond reputemoneypenny20 has a reputation beyond reputemoneypenny20 has a reputation beyond reputemoneypenny20 has a reputation beyond reputemoneypenny20 has a reputation beyond reputemoneypenny20 has a reputation beyond reputemoneypenny20 has a reputation beyond reputemoneypenny20 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: What has p*ssed you off today...part II

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorothy View Post
Dear lord. There isn't enough eye bleach to erase that crap. Shouldn't this be in the conspiracy theory thread?
Granted I only watched about 20 seconds of Ashton Kutcher but what's he got to do with this damn child?
__________________
Remember, when you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It is only painful for others. The same applies when you are stupid.

The Recipe Thread Index:
moneypenny20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 8th 2017, 1:51 pm   #2429
Queen of Diplomacy
Premium Member
 
Dorothy's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: Nice beaver, eh?
Posts: 27,561
Dorothy has a reputation beyond reputeDorothy has a reputation beyond reputeDorothy has a reputation beyond reputeDorothy has a reputation beyond reputeDorothy has a reputation beyond reputeDorothy has a reputation beyond reputeDorothy has a reputation beyond reputeDorothy has a reputation beyond reputeDorothy has a reputation beyond reputeDorothy has a reputation beyond reputeDorothy has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: What has p*ssed you off today...part II

Quote:
Originally Posted by moneypenny20 View Post
Granted I only watched about 20 seconds of Ashton Kutcher but what's he got to do with this damn child?
The video is not even aboit Maddie Mccann! It's a bunch of weird "news" reports about ?human trafficking.
__________________
Time does not heal
It makes a half-stitched scar
That can be broken and again you feel
Grief as total as in its first hour
Dorothy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 8th 2017, 1:53 pm   #2430
upsidedowner
Super Moderator
 
moneypenny20's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 61,351
moneypenny20 has a reputation beyond reputemoneypenny20 has a reputation beyond reputemoneypenny20 has a reputation beyond reputemoneypenny20 has a reputation beyond reputemoneypenny20 has a reputation beyond reputemoneypenny20 has a reputation beyond reputemoneypenny20 has a reputation beyond reputemoneypenny20 has a reputation beyond reputemoneypenny20 has a reputation beyond reputemoneypenny20 has a reputation beyond reputemoneypenny20 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: What has p*ssed you off today...part II

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorothy View Post
The video is not even aboit Maddie Mccann! It's a bunch of weird "news" reports about ?human trafficking.
Oh ok.
__________________
Remember, when you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It is only painful for others. The same applies when you are stupid.

The Recipe Thread Index:
moneypenny20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   British Expats / General / Take it Outside!


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT. The time now is 10:33 pm.


Powered by vBulletin: ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© 1999-2010 BritishExpats.com