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Old Sep 4th 2017, 1:55 pm   #106
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Default Re: Western Women and boys!!

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Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
It isn't a debate. Debates require the intelligent use of fact to construct logically-sound and irrefutable positions. This stuff has so many logical holes in it my 17 year old could pick it apart.

All this is, is another shit-stirring thread. I have to congratulate the OP and his sidekick - he got what he wanted, yet another thread with people arguing about "migrants" or "immigrants" and muslims as a free bonus.
Is it illogical to point out that there is nothing 'special' about "Western Women"---title of the thread, or Western men for that matter.

Or to point out that in any religion there are profound differences between the 'ultra -strict' and those that just are nominally adherents to any religion or none. To ignore these differences can be discourteous and sometimes stupid.
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Old Sep 4th 2017, 2:22 pm   #107
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Default Re: Western Women and boys!!

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Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
Interested to know which country is that?
It is a country where Buddhist traditions are followed by the majority of the population and where shoulders have to be covered and knees not exposed.
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Old Sep 4th 2017, 5:13 pm   #108
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Default Re: Western Women and boys!!

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Originally Posted by morpeth View Post
I was referring to the statistics given by OP about Italy,
Why? Why would you refer random numbers posted by an individual unknown to you? Did you make any attempt to verify what the OP was saying? Or did you just refer to his statistics because they agreed with your already formed biases? FWIW, I copy/pasted several line items from the OP and did a Google search (you're welcome!) and none of them produced an obvious matching story from Italy. They all produced many stories from different locations in the world. The resulting conclusion is that rapes happen in countries. Maybe something happened in Italy and maybe it was immigrant related but he didn't give enough information for verification. Not that I should even have to perform said verification.



Quote:
and yes I asked questions, how else does one learn.
You said:

"And why is it in almost every country there are consistent reports of the disproportionate amount of sex crimes are committed by migrants/refugees ?" ~ Morpeth / as stated in post 57 of this thread.

That's not a question. That's a declaration and a clear revelation of an internally held belief.



Quote:
I didn't claim to have any reliable statistics on situation in Italy. I fail to see what is a "dishonest" premise. Either the refugees/migrants are beneficial or they are not.
Beneficial? What does that even mean? The OP was posting about criminality.

Quote:
Were those statistics indicative I don't know. My original question was at what point would such statistics be indicative ?

As far USA concerned I do believe it is a very different situation than Europe, and based on areas I have lived in and undocumented people I have known they were quite careful to avoid any issues with the police. There are people who have entered the country without visas who have committed crimes, which would not have occurred if the border was better controlled.
You said, "Almost every country." Why would you say that if you were only talking about Europe and, even then, only the countries in which you specifically lived? Have you lived in "almost every country"? Even if you had (lived in almost every country) your remarks are still entirely anecdotal when stated without any supporting evidence.

The fact of the matter is that you took up the mantle of the OP who has been banned. The OP provided no proof, data, statistics or even a link to a tabloid rag. You say you ask questions because you want to learn but your actions reveal the opposite. Demanding that others justify their remarks, while refusing to do even rudimentary research of your own, is not indicative of a desire to learn.

Please note, these questions are all rhetorical and I am not going keep on with this back and forth silliness. You will take us down a million rabbit holes and that's just tiresome.
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Old Sep 4th 2017, 5:33 pm   #109
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Default Re: Western Women and boys!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
It isn't a debate. Debates require the intelligent use of fact to construct logically-sound and irrefutable positions. This stuff has so many logical holes in it my 17 year old could pick it apart.

All this is, is another shit-stirring thread. I have to congratulate the OP and his sidekick - he got what he wanted, yet another thread with people arguing about "migrants" or "immigrants" and muslims as a free bonus.
It's bad enough when trolls post trash but when (allegedly) legitimate posters jump on the bandwagon it's pretty pathetic.
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Old Sep 4th 2017, 6:08 pm   #110
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Default Re: Western Women and boys!!

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Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
I was pointing out differences according to religion.
Muslims are local.
Those that are ultra-strict have different attitudes to women than non-strict Muslims.

It is not that simple as you have read in the UK government warnings.

Example north Goa--we used to spend a few days there several times a year.
Will never go again--the main problems are Western tourists and Russian criminals.

South Goa within driving distance of our home is quite different ordinary pleasant Russian families, European travellers, local domestic tourists.

Delhi --Janpath area is the main tourist area and is a magnet for local criminals of all kinds. Used to regularly go there---now never again!

Other tourist areas and cities no such problems.

As I said above generalisations are never accurate.
I'm going to India for a few weeks (Rajisthan) after visiting my family in Australia, off next week. Really looking forward to it! Like most of us I did a bit of research re local culture/norms/standards, and have been happily buying my cotton tunics, trousers and three quarter sleeved cover ups. And insect repellent - different people tell me different things but I don't give mozzies a chance anywhere!

ps - I research cultural and social norms because I believe in respecting the people of the countries I visit, not for any other reason.
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Old Sep 4th 2017, 6:33 pm   #111
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Default Re: Western Women and boys!!

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Originally Posted by spouse of scouse View Post
I'm going to India for a few weeks (Rajisthan) after visiting my family in Australia, off next week. Really looking forward to it! Like most of us I did a bit of research re local culture/norms/standards, and have been happily buying my cotton tunics, trousers and three quarter sleeved cover ups. And insect repellent - different people tell me different things but I don't give mozzies a chance anywhere!

ps - I research cultural and social norms because I believe in respecting the people of the countries I visit, not for any other reason.
That's great which places will you visit?
Dress etc. is not strict in most of India (except in temples, mosques etc.) as I tried to convey above, (although hot-pants might be stared at)
Insect repellant always useful!
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Old Sep 4th 2017, 6:43 pm   #112
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Default Re: Western Women and boys!!

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Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
That's great which places will you visit?
Dress etc. is not strict in most of India (except in temples, mosques etc.) as I tried to convey above, (although hot-pants might be stared at)
Insect repellant always useful!
No danger of that, my hot-pants days are over

Just the tourist path Pat, it's my first visit. We have a couple of days in Delhi, then travelling to Udaipur, Jodhpur, Jaipur, Agra and back to Delhi for a few days.

So looking forward to it, we've seen a lot of Vietnam and Malaysia and love both countries, I'm fully expecting to fall for India too
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Old Sep 4th 2017, 8:59 pm   #113
 
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Default Re: Western Women and boys!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
Is it illogical to point out that there is nothing 'special' about "Western Women"---title of the thread, or Western men for that matter.

Or to point out that in any religion there are profound differences between the 'ultra -strict' and those that just are nominally adherents to any religion or none. To ignore these differences can be discourteous and sometimes stupid.
I wasn't referring to you or this bit of the conversation. I would suggest that lending credibility to threads that have the intent the OP clearly had with this one by participating in any serious way is probably not a great way to use your time.

Once the pointing and laughing is over, I would just leave.
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Old Sep 5th 2017, 3:00 am   #114
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Default Re: Western Women and boys!!

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Originally Posted by Leslie View Post
Why? Why would you refer random numbers posted by an individual unknown to you? Did you make any attempt to verify what the OP was saying? Or did you just refer to his statistics because they agreed with your already formed biases? FWIW, I copy/pasted several line items from the OP and did a Google search (you're welcome!) and none of them produced an obvious matching story from Italy. They all produced many stories from different locations in the world. The resulting conclusion is that rapes happen in countries. Maybe something happened in Italy and maybe it was immigrant related but he didn't give enough information for verification. Not that I should even have to perform said verification.





You said:

"And why is it in almost every country there are consistent reports of the disproportionate amount of sex crimes are committed by migrants/refugees ?" ~ Morpeth / as stated in post 57 of this thread.

That's not a question. That's a declaration and a clear revelation of an internally held belief.





Beneficial? What does that even mean? The OP was posting about criminality.



You said, "Almost every country." Why would you say that if you were only talking about Europe and, even then, only the countries in which you specifically lived? Have you lived in "almost every country"? Even if you had (lived in almost every country) your remarks are still entirely anecdotal when stated without any supporting evidence.

The fact of the matter is that you took up the mantle of the OP who has been banned. The OP provided no proof, data, statistics or even a link to a tabloid rag. You say you ask questions because you want to learn but your actions reveal the opposite. Demanding that others justify their remarks, while refusing to do even rudimentary research of your own, is not indicative of a desire to learn.

Please note, these questions are all rhetorical and I am not going keep on with this back and forth silliness. You will take us down a million rabbit holes and that's just tiresome.
“Why? Why would you refer random numbers posted by an individual unknown to you? Did you make any attempt to verify what the OP was saying? Or did you just refer to his statistics because they agreed with your already formed biases? FWIW, I copy/pasted several line items from the OP and did a Google search (you're welcome!) and none of them produced an obvious matching story from Italy. They all produced many stories from different locations in the world. The resulting conclusion is that rapes happen in countries. Maybe something happened in Italy and maybe it was immigrant related but he didn't give enough information for verification. Not that I should even have to perform said verification.”
 I don’t know anyone on who posts on BE, and I assume one has to give some benefit of the doubt to people posting. And anyone posting something indicating a disagreement of the conventional majority opinion on BE will soon be refuted by the conventional majority soon enough or simply challenged.
 I asked a question which you have taken as supporting OP’s views even though in my post I readily commented my limited knowledge of the current situation in Italy except mainly discussions with some Italians.
 If you shouldn’t “have” to perform said verification, don’t know why I should either. Actually though I didn’t do a search in Italian which I probably should have, I did a quick search in English and also found no reference to that story, or even very many stories on the subject of such statistics as it pertains to Italy.
“You said, "Almost every country." Why would you say that if you were only talking about Europe and, even then, only the countries in which you specifically lived? Have you lived in "almost every country"? Even if you had (lived in almost every country) your remarks are still entirely anecdotal when stated without any supporting evidence. “
- I stand corrected I should have said almost every country in Europe.
- I did not post supporting evidence as on numerous threads on BE have discussed the various news reports from the sensationalist press and other outlets.
- If similar stories/statistics reported from many countries, but at the same time many people complaining such stories sensationalist and do not reflect the situation accurately, yes I have an interest in which is the correct representation.
“The fact of the matter is that you took up the mantle of the OP who has been banned. The OP provided no proof, data, statistics or even a link to a tabloid rag. You say you ask questions because you want to learn but your actions reveal the opposite. Demanding that others justify their remarks, while refusing to do even rudimentary research of your own, is not indicative of a desire to learn. “
- I fail to see my questions could be construed as “demanding”, if they came across that way my apology to whomever.
- I am unsure what actions you are referring to, looking at my posts I think I made it fairly clear I do not have a lot of recent experience with Italy. One thing I like about the BE forums often there are people with recent experience in a country being discussed, whether anecdotal or not all information helps.
- I am unsure where I “refused” to do rudimentary research.
- I do not know why the OP was banned, nor was I was aware that every assertion/comment on BE needs to be supported by an outside link always (there are so many comments posted with no support on many different threads that often have no support).

“Please note, these questions are all rhetorical and I am not going keep on with this back and forth silliness. You will take us down a million rabbit holes and that's just tiresome”
So if tiresome no need to respond to my posts. I do not recall my questions were directed to a post you made on this thread.

You also questioned whether I asked a question : the question itself referred to sensationalist reports from many different countries in Europe, and from other outlets- my questions as why there are there fairly consistently so many reports from different countries in Europe ? One could answer that in different ways, but it is a question.
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Old Sep 5th 2017, 12:05 pm   #115
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Default Re: Western Women and boys!!

The problem with this sort of nonsense, is that it only reinforces the increasingly dim view of isolationist British mentality. The tabloids spew it daily, and the British public seems to just lap it up. It's only become worse since the referendum (and as in this case, much of this nonsensical rhetoric suspiciously appears to be a thinly veiled attempt to justify Brexit at a time when it's becoming woefully difficult to do).

Fortunately, not all subscribe to it. But even those not predisposed have difficulty seeing through the uniquely British media noise. It seems to only dawn on people when they are afforded the luxury of seeing it from afar, away from the tribalism, in objectivity. Sadly, though, they're too oft characterised as the "traitors", you know, the ones who are "against us" and our increasingly isolated, irrational view of the world. But reality will eventually sort that out. It always does. Unfortunately, not before causing a lot more damage.

Something needs to be about the tabloids though. Freedom of speech is one thing (and I'm all for that). Blatant bullshit is quite another.
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Old Sep 5th 2017, 12:53 pm   #116
 
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Default Re: Western Women and boys!!

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Originally Posted by amideislas View Post
Something needs to be about the tabloids though. Freedom of speech is one thing (and I'm all for that). Blatant bullshit is quite another.

We can just have Jerseygirl sort the tabloids out. Problem solved
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Old Sep 9th 2017, 4:20 am   #117
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Default Re: Western Women and boys!!

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Originally Posted by amideislas View Post
The problem with this sort of nonsense, is that it only reinforces the increasingly dim view of isolationist British mentality. The tabloids spew it daily, and the British public seems to just lap it up. It's only become worse since the referendum (and as in this case, much of this nonsensical rhetoric suspiciously appears to be a thinly veiled attempt to justify Brexit at a time when it's becoming woefully difficult to do).

Fortunately, not all subscribe to it. But even those not predisposed have difficulty seeing through the uniquely British media noise. It seems to only dawn on people when they are afforded the luxury of seeing it from afar, away from the tribalism, in objectivity. Sadly, though, they're too oft characterised as the "traitors", you know, the ones who are "against us" and our increasingly isolated, irrational view of the world. But reality will eventually sort that out. It always does. Unfortunately, not before causing a lot more damage.

Something needs to be about the tabloids though. Freedom of speech is one thing (and I'm all for that). Blatant bullshit is quite another.

The Tabloids rule us.. Didn't you know? Their powerful owners pay for the political parties.( mainly the Tories of course) What they want doing gets done.
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