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Old Sep 3rd 2017, 9:47 pm   #76
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Default Re: Western Women and boys!!

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Originally Posted by Expatrick View Post
As statistics seem to be the major element of proof I look forward to sight of those statistics that contradict those of the OP.
The OP hasn't actually presented any. He's made reference to his alleged hearing/viewing of statistics.

It's rather difficult to refute alleged statistics with real statistics if the alleged statistics aren't gathered or published in the first place or if they have been incorrectly understood.

Why don't you try asking the OP to supply a link to his statistics and let us all verify for ourselves that they are from a reliable source and that he is reporting them reliably , rather than asking everybody else for proof of a negative?
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Old Sep 3rd 2017, 9:52 pm   #77
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Default Re: Western Women and boys!!

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It's rather difficult to refute alleged statistics with real statistics if the alleged statistics aren't gathered or published in the first place or if they have been incorrectly understood.
No, it's not.
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Old Sep 3rd 2017, 9:55 pm   #78
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Default Re: Western Women and boys!!

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Originally Posted by Red Eric View Post
Why don't you try asking the OP to supply a link to his statistics...
Umm... that's a little bit impossible.

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Old Sep 3rd 2017, 10:11 pm   #79
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Default Re: Western Women and boys!!

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No, it's not.
Yes it is.
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Old Sep 3rd 2017, 10:24 pm   #80
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Default Re: Western Women and boys!!

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Originally Posted by Leslie View Post
Morpeth will not have any reliable evidence because that's not how he operates. He will demand that others answer his loaded questions, based on a dishonest premise, and then cite "his friends" as sources.

I cannot speak for Italy but since he said "most countries" I will offer some reliable evidence, from credible sources, that immigrants in the US are no more likely to commit crimes (including the "sex crimes" that morpeth mentioned) than natural born citizens. The data shows that, in many cases, immigrants are actually less likely to commit crimes.

http://www.nber.org/papers/w13229.pdf

Fact check: Immigration doesn't bring crime into U.S., data say | PBS NewsHour
I was referring to the statistics given by OP about Italy, and yes I asked questions, how else does one learn. I didn't claim to have any reliable statistics on situation in Italy. I fail to see what is a "dishonest" premise. Either the refugees/migrants are beneficial or they are not.

Were those statistics indicative I don't know. My original question was at what point would such statistics be indicative ?

As far USA concerned I do believe it is a very different situation than Europe, and based on areas I have lived in and undocumented people I have known they were quite careful to avoid any issues with the police. There are people who have entered the country without visas who have committed crimes, which would not have occurred if the border was better controlled.
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Old Sep 4th 2017, 3:43 am   #81
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Default Re: Western Women and boys!!

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Originally Posted by morpeth View Post
I was referring to the statistics given by OP about Italy, and yes I asked questions, how else does one learn. I didn't claim to have any reliable statistics on situation in Italy. I fail to see what is a "dishonest" premise. Either the refugees/migrants are beneficial or they are not.

Were those statistics indicative I don't know. My original question was at what point would such statistics be indicative ?

As far USA concerned I do believe it is a very different situation than Europe, and based on areas I have lived in and undocumented people I have known they were quite careful to avoid any issues with the police. There are people who have entered the country without visas who have committed crimes, which would not have occurred if the border was better controlled.
I think it's patently obvious where the OP was going with this post. Finding a means to discredit immigrants and refugees ..end of.
When the populace becomes uncomfortable and even afraid of new events,the rumours spread.Aided in no small part by the media.
Rapes and sexual attacks amongst the indigenous population ,by the indigenous population has gone on for centuries without much comment. It is abhorrent whoever commits it.We don't need statistic to tell us that
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Old Sep 4th 2017, 6:52 am   #82
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Default Re: Western Women and boys!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Expatrick View Post
As statistics seem to be the major element of proof I look forward to sight of those statistics that contradict those of the OP.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Eric View Post
The OP hasn't actually presented any. He's made reference to his alleged hearing/viewing of statistics.

It's rather difficult to refute alleged statistics with real statistics if the alleged statistics aren't gathered or published in the first place or if they have been incorrectly understood.

Why don't you try asking the OP to supply a link to his statistics and let us all verify for ourselves that they are from a reliable source and that he is reporting them reliably , rather than asking everybody else for proof of a negative?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Expatrick View Post
No, it's not.
So if it's not difficult, why don't you do it?

Reversal of the burden of proof is unreasonable. OP has made a claim - it's up to the OP to justify it - not up to others to hunt around for evidence (which might not exist or be well hidden) that what he has said is not so. For example there might not actually be any stats for rape separated by nation of origin of the perpetrator.

In fact I've looked and there aren't so the OP is simply wrong.
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Old Sep 4th 2017, 8:16 am   #83
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Default Re: Western Women and boys!!

Fear and 'Moral panic' stoked by Berlusconi's media empire (the OP's source) has been well documented in Italy over the last decade or so.

Possibly upping their game as they tap into the changing public mood...

In once-welcoming Italy, the tide turns against migrants
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Old Sep 4th 2017, 9:07 am   #84
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Default Re: Western Women and boys!!

Reading the above posts I agree with most, and generalisations are usually wrong.

However it is foolish to ignore the fact that some very strict Muslim men (often lacking in education) see women who do not dress modestly or cover their hair as no better than prostitutes. This includes some Imams who have even less experience of 'foreigners'.

This is not just related to "Western" women! It happens in non-Western countries and where there is a Muslim minority.

In the UK the problems happened (partly because of the scandalous number of vulnerable neglected young girls) and because the police were slow to investigate for fear of being accused of racism.
See the excellent report by Prof. Alexis Jay.


https://www.google.co.uk/?gfe_rd=cr&...QDA&gws_rd=ssl
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Old Sep 4th 2017, 9:17 am   #85
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Default Re: Western Women and boys!!

Here you go: numbers of sex crimes in Germany are up, main culprit are refugees. We have already two dead German women killed by men from Afghanistan and Ghana. I could mention the "incident" in the city that starts with an C but hey it is only women that are victims. It is kind of natural, as expected so let's play it down.


http://www.faz.net/aktuell/gesellschaft/kriminalitaet/mehr-sexualdelikte-durch-fluechtlinge-14993901.html
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Old Sep 4th 2017, 9:27 am   #86
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Default Re: Western Women and boys!!

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Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
Reading the above posts I agree with most, and generalisations are usually wrong.

However it is foolish to ignore the fact that some very strict Muslim men (often lacking in education) see women who do not dress modestly or cover their hair as no better than prostitutes. This includes some Imams who have even less experience of 'foreigners'.

This is not just related to "Western" women! It happens in non-Western countries and where there is a Muslim minority.

In the UK the problems happened (partly because of the scandalous number of vulnerable neglected young girls) and because the police were slow to investigate for fear of being accused of racism.
See the excellent report by Prof. Alexis Jay.


https://www.google.co.uk/?gfe_rd=cr&...QDA&gws_rd=ssl
Some years ago a colleague was married to a Spanish girl and we got to know them quite well.
We were discussing the differences in our culture back then in the 70,s when the only contact the vast majority had of Spain and the Spanish was the annual package to the Costas.
Having been on such a holiday we commented on the way Spanish men were like flies around girls on holiday much to the frustration of British males.

Her comment was that due to the stricter moral attitudes within Spanish society that tourists because of their dress, relaxed attitudes to alcohol sex provided an outlet.
She used a phrase which she said translated into, Spanish men view women as either, their mother, sister, family members the girl they will marry or whores.

Not many Spanish Muslim men but a reflection of a different moral attitude.
The number of attacks in India on tourists ( see ukgov advice to women travelling to India among many other countries ) again reflects that it not exclusevly linked to religion but just to testosterone.

Last edited by EMR; Sep 4th 2017 at 10:11 am.
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Old Sep 4th 2017, 9:39 am   #87
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Default Re: Western Women and boys!!

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Originally Posted by Assanah View Post
Here you go: numbers of sex crimes in Germany are up, main culprit are refugees. We have already two dead German women killed by men from Afghanistan and Ghana. I could mention the "incident" in the city that starts with an C but hey it is only women that are victims. It is kind of natural, as expected so let's play it down.


http://www.faz.net/aktuell/gesellschaft/kriminalitaet/mehr-sexualdelikte-durch-fluechtlinge-14993901.html
As I posted, Romanians ,Europeans not migrants or refugees are being charged with attacks on women in Rome.
Do we now start an anti Romanian thread.?
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Old Sep 4th 2017, 10:22 am   #88
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Default Re: Western Women and boys!!

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Originally Posted by EMR View Post
...
Not many Spanish Muslim men but a reflection of a different moral attitude.
The number of attacks in India on tourists ( see ukgov advice to women travelling to India among many other countries ) again reflects that it not exclusevly linked to religion but just to testosterone.
But interesting that many countries / cultures where particularly prevalent or gross behaviour goes on are the more / most religious ones.
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Old Sep 4th 2017, 10:26 am   #89
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Default Re: Western Women and boys!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by EMR View Post
Some years ago a colleague was married to a Spanish girl and we got to know them quite well.
We were discussing the differences in our culture back then in the 70,s when the only contact the vast majority had of Spain and the Spanish was the annual package to the Costas.
Having been on such a holiday we commented on the way Spanish men were like flies around girls on holiday much to the frustration of British males.

Her comment was that due to the stricter moral attitudes within Spanish society that tourists because of their dress, relaxed attitudes to alcohol sex provided an outlet.
She used a phrase which she said translated into, Spanish men view women as either, their mother, sister, family members the girl they will marry or whores.

Not many Spanish Muslim men but a reflection of a different moral attitude.
The number of attacks in India on tourists ( see ukgov advice to women travelling to India among many other countries ) again reflects that it not exclusevly linked to religion but just to testosterone.
I agree with what you have said but you must agree that the extreme views about women's dress and likely morality is related to religion.

What you said about tourists places in India is very true, 50 years ago, women there did not expose their bodies on beaches and local young men (out in a group) enjoyed themselves taking photographs and worse! They had only seen women uncovered in films.

Now it is very much changed local women are on beaches in bikinis (but not Muslim women).
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Old Sep 4th 2017, 10:26 am   #90
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Default Re: Western Women and boys!!

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Originally Posted by Bahtatboy View Post
But interesting that many countries / cultures where particularly prevalent or gross behaviour goes on are the more / most religious ones.
It just points to the hypocrisy of religion.
Though I doubt that the behaviour we see in the UK and among Brits in holiday where taking advantage of those under the influence has anything to do with religion.
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