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Old Oct 6th 2017, 7:35 pm   #1
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Default US Protectionism, NAFTA and trade wars.

If anyone in the USA just heard a rumble it might be from Oop North (Canada)
as many might be saying " Go **** yourselves you Merican wankers"

But surely Canadians are far too polite to say such things and they are just a small country and have no impact.

Why this sudden outrage by the usual polite and docile Canadians you may ask well since the Big Cheeto was elected he is now throwing his weight around and pissing off just about every other country in the world.

Im gonna rip up NAFTA worst deal ever. Im going to get the US Commerce Department to slap a potential 300% duty on the aircraft manufacturer Bombardier that surprisingly employs 20,000 Americans because Boeing are upset with them.

Find me any aircraft manufacturer that isn't heavily subsidized by their own Govt including Boeing.
I could understand Boeings argument but they don't even build a plane with the same specs as the Bombardier C Series aircraft.
U.S. hits Bombardier with 79.82% preliminary duty on CSeries aircraft - Business - CBC News

Lets all play fair as we all rely on each other.
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Old Oct 6th 2017, 8:15 pm   #2
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Default Re: US Protectionism, NAFTA and trade wars.

It once was a global community. Wait until he tries to disband the UN. What a waste of time that organization is.
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Old Oct 8th 2017, 8:34 pm   #3
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Default Re: US Protectionism, NAFTA and trade wars.

Mexico has been quicker to hit the U.S. where it hurts on trade while Canada has remained more diplomatic

Trump's tough trade talk targets Mexico but his actions are hitting Canada - Politics - CBC News
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Old Oct 8th 2017, 9:50 pm   #4
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Default Re: US Protectionism, NAFTA and trade wars.

I hate to think what the situation will be in 2 to 3 years time when the UK tries to negotiate trade deals. I think they will have a tough time if everyone is be protectionist.
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Old Oct 8th 2017, 9:59 pm   #5
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Default Re: US Protectionism, NAFTA and trade wars.

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Originally Posted by mrken30 View Post
I hate to think what the situation will be in 2 to 3 years time when the UK tries to negotiate trade deals. I think they will have a tough time if everyone is be protectionist.
I don't think everyone will be protectionist. But the US certainly will be and, given how desperate the UK is going to be for deals, you know that any deal is likely going to screw the UK.
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Old Oct 8th 2017, 10:37 pm   #6
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Default Re: US Protectionism, NAFTA and trade wars.

I wonder if any sensible US person would present to Trump and the US at large a detailed list of things Proudly Made in the USA that they use on a daily basis or buy on a regular basis?

1. Lets start with the computer or smart phone/tablet you are replying on this thread to. Is my Apple iMac really made in the USA or the Samsung Galaxy?

2. How about that TV you are watching the NFL or baseball playoffs on?

3. Well its Canadian Thanksgiving weekend anyway how about that oven the turkey is cooking in or the toaster oven you are using hell any electric appliance you are using.

4. Have a look at the labels in the clothing you are wearing or go and check your wardrobe and put in a pile all of the clothing made in the USA.

5. Are you sure that car you are driving or transit bus you catch was made in the USA?

Yes go ahead Hire American and Buy American and then go to the grocery store and see how much fruit and veg is on display.
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Old Oct 10th 2017, 4:09 am   #7
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Default Re: US Protectionism, NAFTA and trade wars.

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Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian View Post
I wonder if any sensible US person would present to Trump and the US at large a detailed list of things Proudly Made in the USA that they use on a daily basis or buy on a regular basis?

1. Lets start with the computer or smart phone/tablet you are replying on this thread to. Is my Apple iMac really made in the USA or the Samsung Galaxy?

2. How about that TV you are watching the NFL or baseball playoffs on?

3. Well its Canadian Thanksgiving weekend anyway how about that oven the turkey is cooking in or the toaster oven you are using hell any electric appliance you are using.

4. Have a look at the labels in the clothing you are wearing or go and check your wardrobe and put in a pile all of the clothing made in the USA.

5. Are you sure that car you are driving or transit bus you catch was made in the USA?

Yes go ahead Hire American and Buy American and then go to the grocery store and see how much fruit and veg is on display.
Some of the tropical and exotics fruits and produce, but I really don't think most US stores would see a huge dip in produce and fruits overall.

California alone produces a large % of the produce found is US stores.
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Old Oct 10th 2017, 6:34 am   #8
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Default Re: US Protectionism, NAFTA and trade wars.

There were US flags for sale at a local hardware store. They were made in China. Maybe Trump's "make America great again" hats were made in China but he hasn't noticed it yet.
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Old Oct 10th 2017, 9:56 am   #9
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Default Re: US Protectionism, NAFTA and trade wars.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jsmth321 View Post
Some of the tropical and exotics fruits and produce, but I really don't think most US stores would see a huge dip in produce and fruits overall.

California alone produces a large % of the produce found is US stores.
It produces and grows but WHO picks those crops for the stores NOT US workers
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Old Oct 13th 2017, 4:26 pm   #10
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Default Re: US Protectionism, NAFTA and trade wars.

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Originally Posted by Giantaxe View Post
I don't think everyone will be protectionist. But the US certainly will be and, given how desperate the UK is going to be for deals, you know that any deal is likely going to screw the UK.
Out of interest, why do you think the UK is going to be desperate for deals?

Today the UK buys and sells a range of products from/to EU and non-EU countries, why do you think not being in the EU and likely subject to WTO tariffs for future EU trade will make the UK desperate?

From what I can see the WTO rates mostly kick-around the sub-5% range, sterling's softening has already negated that impact for trade with the remaining EU.

I'm genuinely interested why people think the UK is going to be doomed post-brexit when it comes to international trade. I suspect the Spanish will want to keep selling tomatoes to the UK, the French wine, the German's cars and so-on, and in return the UK will want to keep selling its wares to those countries.
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Old Oct 13th 2017, 4:49 pm   #11
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Default Re: US Protectionism, NAFTA and trade wars.

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Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
Out of interest, why do you think the UK is going to be desperate for deals?

Today the UK buys and sells a range of products from/to EU and non-EU countries, why do you think not being in the EU and likely subject to WTO tariffs for future EU trade will make the UK desperate?

From what I can see the WTO rates mostly kick-around the sub-5% range, sterling's softening has already negated that impact for trade with the remaining EU.

I'm genuinely interested why people think the UK is going to be doomed post-brexit when it comes to international trade. I suspect the Spanish will want to keep selling tomatoes to the UK, the French wine, the German's cars and so-on, and in return the UK will want to keep selling its wares to those countries.
Because the Brexiter s have told us that the rest of the world is queuing up to do deals.
Our economic future is reliant on these promised post brexit deals.
We have a minister of deals, one liam foxup, good job he is not being paid on results.
Why would a German manufacturer continue to source from the UK when they can switch to an EU supplier tarrifs free.
Why would a non UK owned manufacturer ,a German or French one increase capacity in the UK when relying on global sourcing it will be paying tarrifs on the components it imports from the EU for its UK operations..
What happens if UK manufacturers do not replicate and continue changing specifications for exports to the EU.

It ain,t half a simple as you think let alone all the new regulations on imports and exports that British companies will have to adhere to.
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Old Oct 13th 2017, 5:09 pm   #12
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Default Re: US Protectionism, NAFTA and trade wars.

I was watching one of these so called experts on CBC Power & Politics basically saying Trump prefers bilateral deals as opposed to things like NAFTA and CETA.
Trump wants any deal to favour the US and not a 50-50 type deal.
For manufacturing costs, labour etc both Canada and the USA can't compete with Mexico on that front. They have less stringent labour laws and environmental laws in producing stuff.
He hates trade surpluses between countries although they are not always a bad thing.
Canadas trade with Brazil was an example of this involving coffee.
You tend to become protectionist if you believe your manufacturing jobs are being lost to other countries and forget about robots doing jobs and you automatize production lines.
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Old Oct 13th 2017, 6:19 pm   #13
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Default Re: US Protectionism, NAFTA and trade wars.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EMR View Post
Because the Brexiter s have told us that the rest of the world is queuing up to do deals.
Our economic future is reliant on these promised post brexit deals.
We have a minister of deals, one liam foxup, good job he is not being paid on results.
Why would a German manufacturer continue to source from the UK when they can switch to an EU supplier tarrifs free.
Why would a non UK owned manufacturer ,a German or French one increase capacity in the UK when relying on global sourcing it will be paying tarrifs on the components it imports from the EU for its UK operations..
What happens if UK manufacturers do not replicate and continue changing specifications for exports to the EU.

It ain,t half a simple as you think let alone all the new regulations on imports and exports that British companies will have to adhere to.
I wasn't asking you, I was hoping for a reply from Giantaxe who is a more considered poster and whose pov would be interesting.

Yours is just the usual remainiac bluster and project fear.

The German manufacturer will have found the 15% reduction in price due to the softening of sterling more than outweighs the sub-5% tariff impact.

The non-UK-owned manufacturer may pay a tariff on the component import (or may not, that is up to the UK Gov to decide), but raw materials and components make up a only a small part of the cost of a product.

Why would UK manufacturers change specifications for their EU market sales?

I'm sure there will be some hiccups along the way, but fundamentally I can't see why a product made in the UK will not continue to be sold into the EU and vice versa - the WTO tariffs, which are effectively the "no deal" backstop are not huge and mostly less than the recent weakening of the pound.

The reality is there will likely be some sort of free trade agreement that will be better than the WTO for both sides of the equation.
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Old Oct 13th 2017, 9:31 pm   #14
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Default Re: US Protectionism, NAFTA and trade wars.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
I wasn't asking you, I was hoping for a reply from Giantaxe who is a more considered poster and whose pov would be interesting.

Yours is just the usual remainiac bluster and project fear.

The German manufacturer will have found the 15% reduction in price due to the softening of sterling more than outweighs the sub-5% tariff impact.

The non-UK-owned manufacturer may pay a tariff on the component import (or may not, that is up to the UK Gov to decide), but raw materials and components make up a only a small part of the cost of a product.

Why would UK manufacturers change specifications for their EU market sales?

I'm sure there will be some hiccups along the way, but fundamentally I can't see why a product made in the UK will not continue to be sold into the EU and vice versa - the WTO tariffs, which are effectively the "no deal" backstop are not huge and mostly less than the recent weakening of the pound.



The reality is there will likely be some sort of free trade agreement that will be better than the WTO for both sides of the equation.
First of all its an open forum, use the PM if you do not want your posts commented on.
Your arguement ref exchange rate advantages went up in flames with recent trade figures as the gap between imports and exports has got even wider.
So much for the export boom all we are seeing are rising costs that are tarrifs free.
What inflation would be when tarrifs are applied even wto levels is anyone's guess.
As for as material costs, I do not know what world you live in but in mine the base costs starts at 60 % with exchange rates following brexit adding up to 20%.
That's the real world not one of theory .
As one of my customers said whose German customers are complaining about higher UK prices , the base material cost is at it highest for years.
Thank you Brexiter s.
UK manufacturers will have to meet changing export specifications to the EU without any contribution or influence if they are to continue to sell.

Last edited by EMR; Oct 13th 2017 at 9:39 pm.
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