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Old Jan 22nd 2017, 11:17 am   #31
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Default Re: The "Trump" Effect

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Originally Posted by moneypenny20 View Post
Don't fully understand ACA, I don't live in the US, I don't know if it's working or failing but I am fairly sure it's a dumb move to start dismantling it two seconds after becoming President. Wouldn't it be fractionally more smart to come up with a better plan, make sure it's going to work and then dismantle the current plan? Maybe I'm just a naive fool.
A quick google search using the phrase Is the ACA working for Americans

You will see numerous articles saying its working, not working, not working as good as was promised, costing more than was budgeted, still leaving people without coverage.

I agree if its not broke then don't fix it mindset. But as others have said

Bernie Sanders, acknowledged that “the Affordable Care Act has done a lot of good things,” but added that “the United States today is the only major country on earth that doesn’t guarantee health care to all people as a right.” Sanders is pushing a government-run “Medicare for All” plan instead.

Perhaps once the US fixes this then it can look into fixing its election for Presidency. If Clinton had won the Presidency under the same rules as Trump did would they be happy?
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Old Jan 22nd 2017, 11:23 am   #32
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Default Re: The "Trump" Effect

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Could this be just the start by Trumps Administration to "erode" 1st Amendment rights ?

Trump admin tells National Park Service to halt tweets - CNNPolitics.com

Please read this link very carefully
Could this be why a National Park's employee tweeted to Photos ?

Parks and restoration: How President Donald Trump could spell disaster for America’s national parks - Salon.com
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Old Jan 22nd 2017, 11:29 am   #33
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Default Re: The "Trump" Effect

Un bloody believable !

Newt Gingrich wants to fire federal employees who voted for Clinton - Salon.com
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Old Jan 22nd 2017, 1:32 pm   #34
 
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Default Re: The "Trump" Effect

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I've no idea what Trump and the GOP intend to to with health care but the Affordable Care Act is FUBAR and is in the process of collapsing due to unaffordable and rising costs. For most individuals the deductibles are so high it is virtually unusable.

I think the the US could pick any one of about 20 different health care systems from around the world and they would be better than the ACA or what they had before and probably better than what the new administration will bring in.
It's a mess because it was gutted by Congress and the insurance companies when they removed the single payer element.

The US is the only even vaguely developed country in the world unwilling to provide health care for its population. Of course they could - but they won't because it's run as a for-profit business and we are not patients, we are customers, if we can afford the things in the shop.
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Old Jan 22nd 2017, 1:47 pm   #35
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Default Re: The "Trump" Effect

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It's a mess because it was gutted by Congress and the insurance companies when they removed the single payer element.

The US is the only even vaguely developed country in the world unwilling to provide health care for its population. Of course they could - but they won't because it's run as a for-profit business and we are not patients, we are customers, if we can afford the things in the shop.
A lot of Hospitals are Non Profits but that seems to mean some thing different to what you would expect. Ditto Affordable.

Obamacare repeal would also affect your employer health insurance - LA Times

ACA was passed by the Dems, they had control and I do not recollect any gutting, I do recollect that no politician seemed to have read it.
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Old Jan 22nd 2017, 2:07 pm   #36
 
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Default Re: The "Trump" Effect

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A lot of Hospitals are Non Profits but that seems to mean some thing different to what you would expect. Ditto Affordable.

Obamacare repeal would also affect your employer health insurance - LA Times

ACA was passed by the Dems, they had control and I do not recollect any gutting, I do recollect that no politician seemed to have read it.
It's got little to nothing to do with the parties, and everything to do with the "health care industry". Nixon proposed health care reform and couldn't get it through, for god's sake.

But in any case, here is the gutting in question:

https://www.publicintegrity.org/2015...surance-wolves
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Old Jan 22nd 2017, 2:14 pm   #37
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Default Re: The "Trump" Effect

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Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
It's got little to nothing to do with the parties, and everything to do with the "health care industry". Nixon proposed health care reform and couldn't get it through, for god's sake.

But in any case, here is the gutting in question:

https://www.publicintegrity.org/2015...surance-wolves
The Health Care Industry paid the politicians to get ACA on the books.
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Old Jan 22nd 2017, 2:18 pm   #38
 
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Default Re: The "Trump" Effect

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The Health Care Industry paid the politicians to get ACA on the books.
Exactly - in the form that most worked for them. No public option and no single payer, companies not forced to participate but everyone forced to buy.

The best thing about it was that people with pre-existing conditions could at last get some form of coverage.
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Old Jan 22nd 2017, 2:37 pm   #39
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Default Re: The "Trump" Effect

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Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
Exactly - in the form that most worked for them. No public option and no single payer, companies not forced to participate but everyone forced to buy.

The best thing about it was that people with pre-existing conditions could at last get some form of coverage.
If they could afford the premium...

I would say the expansion of Medicaid was more significant, I know that was patchy.

I am sure the Dems will be bleating how wonderful it was, not how they public was scammed.
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Old Jan 22nd 2017, 2:44 pm   #40
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Default Re: The "Trump" Effect

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I don't think it's about whether it's working or not. It's more likely about removing all things Obama from public view.

Most dictators begin their autocracies by eliminating all memory of the previous regime. All pretty normal. Nothing to be alarmed about.
Remember Trump still goes trumping on about Obama's birth certificate. He just want's things back to how they were in 2007.

he has already started to disrupt the mortgage market

http://www.curbed.com/2017/1/20/1433...nce-homeowners

I think sometimes people need to feel a little bit of pain, before they realize the other option may have been better.
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Old Jan 22nd 2017, 2:46 pm   #41
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Default Re: The "Trump" Effect

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A lot of Hospitals are Non Profits but that seems to mean some thing different to what you would expect. Ditto Affordable.

Obamacare repeal would also affect your employer health insurance - LA Times

ACA was passed by the Dems, they had control and I do not recollect any gutting, I do recollect that no politician seemed to have read it.
I thought it was introduced by the Dems, and then the GOP got it's hands on it and gutted it from it's original intention, remember that the GOP had control of both the Senate and Congress while this bill was being passed, so it's final form was, almost certainly, what Obama would have liked, but that's what happens when big business runs one of the major political parties.
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Old Jan 22nd 2017, 2:49 pm   #42
 
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Default Re: The "Trump" Effect

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If they could afford the premium...

I would say the expansion of Medicaid was more significant, I know that was patchy.

I am sure the Dems will be bleating how wonderful it was, not how they public was scammed.
Neither party has the will nor the clout nor the interest to provide an actual national health care system. About 20 million people will be worse off if what there is goes away - and that matters - but there is no point in pretending that ACA solved the problem or changed the way this country manages health care.
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Old Jan 22nd 2017, 2:59 pm   #43
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Default Re: The "Trump" Effect

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Originally Posted by Boiler View Post
A lot of Hospitals are Non Profits but that seems to mean some thing different to what you would expect. Ditto Affordable.

Obamacare repeal would also affect your employer health insurance - LA Times

ACA was passed by the Dems, they had control and I do not recollect any gutting, I do recollect that no politician seemed to have read it.
In some cases the for-profit health care providers give significantly more to the community than non-profits or not-for profits. I am still confused by the difference.

Credit unions are probably a good example. Credit unions pay zero taxes and do not have significantly better rates than banks. Banks pay a lot of taxes which go to fund many things.

The main difference I see is that for-profits have shareholders who hold the company to do a good job.
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Old Jan 22nd 2017, 5:13 pm   #44
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Default Re: The "Trump" Effect

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Originally Posted by paw339 View Post
I've no idea what Trump and the GOP intend to to with health care but the Affordable Care Act is FUBAR and is in the process of collapsing due to unaffordable and rising costs. For most individuals the deductibles are so high it is virtually unusable.
As opposed to those rising costs that were already happening?
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Old Jan 22nd 2017, 5:31 pm   #45
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Default Re: The "Trump" Effect

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I thought it was introduced by the Dems, and then the GOP got it's hands on it and gutted it from it's original intention, remember that the GOP had control of both the Senate and Congress while this bill was being passed, so it's final form was, almost certainly, what Obama would have liked, but that's what happens when big business runs one of the major political parties.
On December 23, the Senate voted 60–39 to end debate on the bill: a cloture vote to end the filibuster. The bill then passed, also 60–39, on December 24, 2009, with all Democrats and two independents voting for it, and all Republicans against (except Jim Bunning, who did not vote)

The House passed the Senate bill with a 219–212 vote on March 21, 2010, with 34 Democrats and all 178 Republicans voting against it
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