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Old Sep 7th 2017, 10:47 am   #46
 
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

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I've only seen him debate once or twice and if i'm honest I liked him. He came across really well. Posh yes but thats not a crime. he was sensible, grounded and made some decent points. As I say though, I have only seen him speak the once. My mother who's into politics likes him though....
Personally, I think that being impressed by someone's ability to speak coherently, impressed enough to what to put them in power because of it, is setting the bar a bit low
It's a sad statement on how incoherent and stupid so many of our "leaders" appear to be, that Moggy can impress on that basis alone.
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Old Sep 7th 2017, 11:05 am   #47
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

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Personally, I think that being impressed by someone's ability to speak coherently, impressed enough to what to put them in power because of it, is setting the bar a bit low
It's a sad statement on how incoherent and stupid so many of our "leaders" appear to be, that Moggy can impress on that basis alone.
Most of it is press sensationalism! "Tipped for leader" etc.
In the actual survey he got 142 votes, David Davis 240.
I would imagine after the recent interview Rees-Mogg would get far less!

https://www.conservativehome.com/the...eneration.html

Tory MPs line up to disagree with Jacob Rees-Mogg's 'utterly abhorrent' views on abortion
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Old Sep 7th 2017, 11:15 am   #48
 
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

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Most of it is press sensationalism! "Tipped for leader" etc.
In the actual survey he got 142 votes, David Davis 240.
I would imagine after the recent interview Rees-Mogg would get far less!

https://www.conservativehome.com/the...eneration.html

Tory MPs line up to disagree with Jacob Rees-Mogg's 'utterly abhorrent' views on abortion
Yes, I can't see many wanting him for leader except for the tweedy few. Can't see him leading the Tories against Corbyn's power with the youth vote.

But Davis
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Old Sep 7th 2017, 11:29 am   #49
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

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Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
Personally, I think that being impressed by someone's ability to speak coherently, impressed enough to what to put them in power because of it, is setting the bar a bit low
It's a sad statement on how incoherent and stupid so many of our "leaders" appear to be, that Moggy can impress on that basis alone.
"Setting the bar low" is what the Tories have to do, given the dearth of talent in their ranks. However, as a practicing RC he would put to the test the discussion as to whether there is a bar to a Catholic becoming PM (Blair ducked the issue until he resigned). There's no specific bar in law, but it depends how you interpret the Roman Catholic Relief Act (1829), Section 18: "It shall not be lawful for any person professing the Roman Catholic religion directly or indirectly to advise his Majesty, or any person or persons holding or exercising the office of guardians of the United Kingdom".
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Old Sep 7th 2017, 11:49 am   #50
 
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

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"Setting the bar low" is what the Tories have to do, given the dearth of talent in their ranks. However, as a practicing RC he would put to the test the discussion as to whether there is a bar to a Catholic becoming PM (Blair ducked the issue until he resigned). There's no specific bar in law, but it depends how you interpret the Roman Catholic Relief Act (1829), Section 18: "It shall not be lawful for any person professing the Roman Catholic religion directly or indirectly to advise his Majesty, or any person or persons holding or exercising the office of guardians of the United Kingdom".
Ah, a papist plot. To the Tower with him.
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Old Sep 7th 2017, 1:19 pm   #51
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

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"Setting the bar low" is what the Tories have to do, given the dearth of talent in their ranks. However, as a practicing RC he would put to the test the discussion as to whether there is a bar to a Catholic becoming PM (Blair ducked the issue until he resigned). There's no specific bar in law, but it depends how you interpret the Roman Catholic Relief Act (1829), Section 18: "It shall not be lawful for any person professing the Roman Catholic religion directly or indirectly to advise his Majesty, or any person or persons holding or exercising the office of guardians of the United Kingdom".
It'd be interesting to see how the Tory-DUP coalition would go if there was 'one of them' as the leader

Funny as it would be, it wouldn't be worth having a batshit theocrat at the helm though. The UK doesn't need to become US-lite.
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Old Sep 7th 2017, 5:48 pm   #52
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

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It'd be interesting to see how the Tory-DUP coalition would go if there was 'one of them' as the leader

Funny as it would be, it wouldn't be worth having a batshit theocrat at the helm though. The UK doesn't need to become US-lite.
Maybe the DUP should approach Holland and see if King Billy's folks fancy taking them in.....

Having said which, apart from the obvious, the Moggster would seem to have the same reactionary views as "our friends in the North" ...... anti-abortion, anti-gay marriage and I'm sure a lot else too!
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Old Sep 7th 2017, 5:52 pm   #53
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

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Maybe the DUP should approach Holland and see if King Billy's folks fancy taking them in.....
I'm sure they'd love it there, all that dope and reckless sexual abandon. Right up their street ...

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Having said which, apart from the obvious, the Moggster would seem to have the same reactionary views as "our friends in the North" ...... anti-abortion, anti-gay marriage and I'm sure a lot else too!
Well yes, a batshit theocrat is a batshit theocrat. Seems a bit funny that he'd end up teaming up with the crowd that's been chanting "**** the Pope" for the last umpteenty-odd years.

Poetic justice, or dramatic irony, or some such nonsense.
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Old Sep 7th 2017, 7:10 pm   #54
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I'm sure they'd love it there, all that dope and reckless sexual abandon. Right up their street ...
...... hmmm, I was always told that the phrase "King Billy was a fruit merchant" was to be avoided on the Falls....
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Well yes, a batshit theocrat is a batshit theocrat. Seems a bit funny that he'd end up teaming up with the crowd that's been chanting "**** the Pope" for the last umpteenty-odd years.
You have to presume they don't mean it literally ...... unless it was true about the auld King.....

A great definition of Unionism from Frankie Boyle:
"The belief that two similar countries might fare better together. Unless they're both part of Ireland."
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Old Sep 7th 2017, 7:22 pm   #55
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...... hmmm, I was always told that the phrase "King Billy was a fruit merchant" was to be avoided on the Falls....
I think they'd be fine with it on the Falls. The Shankill, on the other hand ...

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You have to presume they don't mean it literally ...... unless it was true about the auld King.....
Well, you never know. I mean, by all accounts he was supposed to have been a half decent king as far as I can tell, but the mere inference that he might have bent that way would not do you any favors, since they really do love him in some parts of Norn Irn. Particularly Larne, but they're all inbred sheep shaggers in Larne, so we prefer not to talk about them

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A great definition of Unionism from Frankie Boyle:
"The belief that two similar countries might fare better together. Unless they're both part of Ireland."
That's quite a good one, actually.
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Old Sep 7th 2017, 11:03 pm   #56
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

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"Setting the bar low" is what the Tories have to do, given the dearth of talent in their ranks. However, as a practicing RC he would put to the test the discussion as to whether there is a bar to a Catholic becoming PM (Blair ducked the issue until he resigned). There's no specific bar in law, but it depends how you interpret the Roman Catholic Relief Act (1829), Section 18: "It shall not be lawful for any person professing the Roman Catholic religion directly or indirectly to advise his Majesty, or any person or persons holding or exercising the office of guardians of the United Kingdom".
You missed out the rest of that section which talks about appointments to the Church of England. JRM might not be able to advise on the appointment of the next Archbishop of Canterbury but it doesn't prevent him from becoming PM.

His views on the matter as a devoutly Catholic father-of-six are hardly surprising. It won't have won over anyone who already disliked him but then I would be surprised if he has alienated any of his previous admirers. He has also avoided falling into the Farron trap by clearly setting out his stall.

Farron's problem was that he clearly does, as evangelical Christian tend to, believe that homosexual acts are sinful but he could never quite say so. This meant that ever interview he ever gave, regardless of topic, would end up on the same subject with the interviewer trying to nail the leader of the Liberal Democrats as a homophobe.

JRM won't have this problem because he has clearly articulated what his views are, that they are his personal moral position and that he does not think that this should inform government policy. You may not like them but he can't now be forever hounded on the subject.
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Old Sep 7th 2017, 11:35 pm   #57
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You missed out the rest of that section which talks about appointments to the Church of England. JRM might not be able to advise on the appointment of the next Archbishop of Canterbury but it doesn't prevent him from becoming PM..
I left it out because it is obvious and therefore irrelevant. It does not detract from the statement as quoted. Were he to become party leader and prospective PM he would be the first ever practicing catholic in that position....... because constitutionally it is unclear.

However, he and Boris are doing well so far as the Laurel and Hardy of politics. Let's hope it stays that way.
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Old Sep 7th 2017, 11:54 pm   #58
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I think they'd be fine with it on the Falls. The Shankill, on the other hand ...
Shhhhhh, we don't even mention the Shankill - because it's a bit ironic that the bastion of loyalism has a name derived from Irish
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Old Sep 8th 2017, 12:05 am   #59
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I left it out because it is obvious and therefore irrelevant. It does not detract from the statement as quoted. Were he to become party leader and prospective PM he would be the first ever practicing catholic in that position....... because constitutionally it is unclear.
What a bizarre assertion. It is neither obvious nor irrelevant, quite the opposite. The edited quote you provided makes it appear that no Catholic can advise the monarch which would prevent any Catholic from being a member of the Cabinet or the Privy Council which is demonstrably false. The whole point of the Act was to grant political emancipation to Catholics. This wasn't extended to the established church for reasons of anti-popery.

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No Roman Catholic to advise the Crown in the appointment to offices in the established church.

It shall not be lawful for any person professing the Roman Catholic religion directly or indirectly to advise his Majesty, or any person or persons holding or exercising the office of guardians of the United Kingdom, or of regent of the United Kingdom, under whatever name, style, or title such office may be constituted, or the lord lieutenant of Ireland, touching or concerning the appointment to or disposal of any office or preferment in the Church of England, or in the Church of Scotland; and if any such person shall offend in the premises he shall, being thereof convicted by due course of law, be deemed guilty of a high misdemeanor, and disabled for ever from holding any office, civil or military, under the Crown.

Roman Catholic Relief Act 1829
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Old Sep 8th 2017, 12:07 am   #60
 
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Default Re: Tories in chaos

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You missed out the rest of that section which talks about appointments to the Church of England. JRM might not be able to advise on the appointment of the next Archbishop of Canterbury but it doesn't prevent him from becoming PM.

His views on the matter as a devoutly Catholic father-of-six are hardly surprising. It won't have won over anyone who already disliked him but then I would be surprised if he has alienated any of his previous admirers. He has also avoided falling into the Farron trap by clearly setting out his stall.

Farron's problem was that he clearly does, as evangelical Christian tend to, believe that homosexual acts are sinful but he could never quite say so. This meant that ever interview he ever gave, regardless of topic, would end up on the same subject with the interviewer trying to nail the leader of the Liberal Democrats as a homophobe.

JRM won't have this problem because he has clearly articulated what his views are, that they are his personal moral position and that he does not think that this should inform government policy. You may not like them but he can't now be forever hounded on the subject.
I don't think anyone was proposing to hound Moggy, but a man who takes orders regarding how to think from an imaginary being, and orders that involve deciding for women what rights they have after being raped, doesn't inspire confidence as a national leader and being pressed on that in an interview seems quite legitimate since he is in government. I had my doubts about Blair on that score, too.
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