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Old Feb 13th 2018, 5:04 pm   #29551
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

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Originally Posted by SultanOfSwing View Post
Nobody has. Because we know Liverpool will take Arsenal's usual spot in 4th instead

Though we can still technically finish 2nd, I'm not holding my breath.
That'll be Spurs's spot again this season
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Old Feb 13th 2018, 5:06 pm   #29552
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

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That'll be Spurs's spot again this season
Diving c***s.
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Old Feb 13th 2018, 5:57 pm   #29553
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

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Originally Posted by Red Eric View Post
Because if you're eg flogging mobile phones or computers or any of the services which can be provided on or via them it helps to have the infrastructure in place so that they can be used to their fullest potential. And if you want to move goods or people around quickly you need good ports, airports, rail and road services. Likewise if you want to rape and pillage another country's tourism potential via a company handily headquartered in London. Etc.
But don't we have a deficit of exports to the EU?

So we give them billions to improve their infrastructure and subsidise their farmers, they then become more competitive as a nation and their farmers and industry compete against ours after we have helped them become more competitive?
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Old Feb 13th 2018, 5:59 pm   #29554
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

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Originally Posted by jimenato View Post
Quite straightforward. The more prosperous those countries are the more trade we can do with them.
Yes, but if they are made more prosperous by us giving them money how does that help us? If you want to give me £50 I'll have more money to buy a £45 cabinet from you - bargain for you!
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Old Feb 13th 2018, 6:01 pm   #29555
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

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Originally Posted by jimenato View Post
In the '90s when Poland first became associated with the EU (they actually joined in 2004 I think) I spent many months on many occasions over there selling, training, installing and supporting our large-scale computer based manufacturing support systems. Also to a lesser degree Czech Republic and Hungary.

We benefited immensely. It's a two way street. You make the cake bigger and everyone gets a bigger piece.
You want the UK to add to its national debt and borrow more money and pay more interest on it, so that Poland gets a better road or so that a millionaire Spanish farmer can buy a new Range Rover?

The UK is not a net exporter to the EU, how does that help the UK?
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Old Feb 13th 2018, 6:02 pm   #29556
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

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Apparently one immigrant filling a job creates another job for someone else. Except in Germany, where it doesn't apply and where freedom of movement helps ensure that nett migration always balances to zero.
Why doesn't it apply in Germany?
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Old Feb 13th 2018, 6:06 pm   #29557
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

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Originally Posted by Red Eric View Post
And those other blocs are already or are in the process of becoming far more than just regional trading blocs.


Out of interest, why have you adopted the language and posture of the lifelong Brexiters and do you think that using the childish insults, distortions etc of them and their supporting army of powerful elite interests strengthens or enhances your arguments?
You first.
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Old Feb 13th 2018, 6:14 pm   #29558
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

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Originally Posted by Cape Blue View Post
You first.
UK nett contribution to the EU as a % of GDP 0.11 %.
Really going to make big difference to UK finances.
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Old Feb 13th 2018, 6:14 pm   #29559
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

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Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee View Post
Oh, and I forgot to add, yes there is. It's called EFTA.

I'm still waiting for your response on why you want to stay in open-skies and nuclear medicines when you want out of everything else to do with the EU. Or NiNO as you refer to it.
Note the etc on my quote you quoted - EFTA requires the SM which requires the FOM.

You can wait.
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Old Feb 13th 2018, 6:19 pm   #29560
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

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But don't we have a deficit of exports to the EU?

So we give them billions to improve their infrastructure and subsidise their farmers, they then become more competitive as a nation and their farmers and industry compete against ours after we have helped them become more competitive?
Britain's export deficit (although in the big scheme of things, rather inconsequential), is of Britain's own doing. Leaving the EU won't solve that, and will only exacerbate it.

Hey, that house next door is really ugly. I think I'll pour acid in my eyes so I won't have to look at it anymore.
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Old Feb 13th 2018, 6:20 pm   #29561
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

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Originally Posted by amideislas View Post
Well that's quite a step down from the conventional Brexit wisdom (fearmongering) of "get us out now! Whatever it takes!". You even sound remotely rational. I reckon that's progress, at least.

But I think you may have missed the mark. The delays have little to do with "adjusting" and everything to do with starting from a point of completely unrealistic expectations (and frankly, just a complete misunderstanding of what Brexit actually means), and moving forward, as each bridge is crossed, reality sets it straight, and now, a lot of head scratching while continuing to hope for some other solutuon , without looking incompetent.

In other words, following a bit of research (after-the-fact), we've now discovered that it's not just a fleeting wish, but an actual need to keep all the benefits, but without appearing to be associated with the EU, because we all know Brexit means Brexit (like "the holy father, holy son, and holy ghost, Amen" ...doesn't really mean anything, but it's what you say in church).

Like I've always said, reality has a funny way of sorting things out. I mean, even you are exhibiting some incremental "acceptance" now. That's positive.
There is no "need" to keep all the benefits, but it is logical for both sides to "want" to keep the benefits - the EU would clearly want to keep the benefit of easy trading with its largest or second largest trading partner so it's logical for the EU to ask the UK for this.

The EU would logically want its citizens to be allowed to continue to stay and live in the UK and therefore would want to ask the UK for this.

The EU would logically want to ensure the safety of its citizens and logically continue good ties with UK police and anti-terrorism departments.

There are many benefits that are important and that the EU would clearly want to have even if they don't "need" to have them and asking the UK to negotiate for them is obviously a sensible policy.

Ditto the UK.
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Old Feb 13th 2018, 6:24 pm   #29562
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

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Does anyone else read the guardian football blogs?

There's a poster there who everyone knows is a Liverpool fan but continues to refer to himself as a neutral.

The difference is he knows and accepts that everyone else knows he's a Liverpool fan and he doesn't seriously pretend he's something he very clearly isn't.
I've already explained my reasons for voting remain and why I would do so again.

I realise that many of you prefer to live in a bubble and circle-jerk about how bad brexit voters are and how they are stupid/xenophobic/lied-to and too stupid to realise/racist/old and on and on, but that is just the immature response of some to losing a vote.

There are many sensible reasons that point towards leave just as there to remain, the issue is individuals balance and weighting of those reasons.
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Old Feb 13th 2018, 6:27 pm   #29563
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

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Originally Posted by amideislas View Post
Britain's export deficit (although in the big scheme of things, rather inconsequential), is of Britain's own doing. Leaving the EU won't solve that, and will only exacerbate it.

Hey, that house next door is really ugly. I think I'll pour acid in my eyes so I won't have to look at it anymore.
You are arguing against something I didn't say - yet another strawman. We were not discussing leaving the EU.

We are discussing UK money funding other EU countries and it was mentioned that it makes those countries wealthier and they can buy more and therefore the UK richer selling to them, but as we have a trade deficit with the EU that does not seem to be a reality.
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Old Feb 13th 2018, 6:36 pm   #29564
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

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Originally Posted by EMR View Post
UK nett contribution to the EU as a % of GDP 0.11 %.
Really going to make big difference to UK finances.
I'm not sure that looking at total GDP is the right comparator when looking at our circa £9B spend.

If we look at our current annual deficit we are spending around £50B more than we collect in tax - so our EU net is 15-20% of our annual shortfall.

Of course, if most of that EU spend actually goes to other EU countries to allow them to be more competitive against us then it may help exacerbate future deficits, just as it also pushes our national debt upwards.

There is, of course, a perfectly sensible argument to look at the total trade we do with the EU, make an estimate of the negative impact of a no-FTA brexit and the tax-take from that and compare that to the £9B.

A no-FTA brexit of course being a bad solution for the EU and the UK.
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Old Feb 13th 2018, 6:42 pm   #29565
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

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You are arguing against something I didn't say - yet another strawman. We were not discussing leaving the EU.

We are discussing UK money funding other EU countries and it was mentioned that it makes those countries wealthier and they can buy more and therefore the UK richer selling to them, but as we have a trade deficit with the EU that does not seem to be a reality.
Oh, wrong thread then. My apologies.

In any case, you're (perhaps unwittingly) arguing another Brexit rationale. And like most rationales for Brexit, this one also has nothing to do with the EU.

And it's kind of ironic that while Britain seems to [want to] pretend the EU isn't that important to it (it is leaving, isn't it? and Brexit means Brexit, not?) continuing the same frictionless trade it's enjoyed as an EU member seems to be the #1 priority. Maybe it's more important than voters thought?
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