Post EU Referendum

[Shard]

Originally Posted by macliam

The greatest abusers of the British welfare system are homegrown generations who believe that they have a right to be supported - and before you think you have an ally, I say this from a socialist perspective, "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs".

.

They may well be dependent, but they are not abusers. Better education and opportunities would reverse the dependency, but that takes a bit more cash.

[la mancha]

Originally Posted by macliam

Nope, wrong. This has nothing to do with migration, this is to do with the British system being too lax and nobody wanting to do anything about it.

The greatest abusers of the British welfare system are homegrown generations who believe that they have a right to be supported - and before you think you have an ally, I say this from a socialist perspective, "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs".

UKIP were just a bunch of chancers, now imploding.

But without them we would not be leaving the EU, would we? Some chancers.

[macliam]

Originally Posted by Shard

They may well be dependent, but they are not abusers. Better education and opportunities would reverse the dependency, but that takes a bit more cash.

Sorry, disagree. I have a close relative who was intelligent enough to win a scholarship but has never worked a day in their life (officially). As a single parent they managed to get by mostly on state benefits - and since they are now in their mid-40s, I don't see a change likely. That is not dependency, that is abuse - and it is taking resource that should be available to someone in need, not want.

[macliam]

Originally Posted by la mancha

But without them we would not be leaving the EU, would we? Some chancers.

Yep, that's a real victory, eh? Pyrrhic I think.

Took the money and ran (mostly back to the Tory party).

Chancers.

[Shard]

Originally Posted by macliam

Sorry, disagree. I have a close relative who was intelligent enough to win a scholarship but has never worked a day in their life (officially). As a single parent they managed to get by mostly on state benefits - and since they are now in their mid-40s, I don't see a change likely. That is not dependency, that is abuse - and it is taking resource that should be available to someone in need, not want.

Your relative may have some justification, who knows, nevertheless her abilities don't apply to the vast majority of those dependent.

[EMR]

Originally Posted by macliam

Nope, wrong. This has nothing to do with migration, this is to do with the British system being too lax and nobody wanting to do anything about it.

The greatest abusers of the British welfare system are homegrown generations who believe that they have a right to be supported - and before you think you have an ally, I say this from a socialist perspective, "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs".

UKIP were just a bunch of chancers, now imploding.

You were a UKIP supporter.

[Garbatellamike]

interesting poll that shows 62 per cent in UK think Barnier is not trying to negotiate but is trying to punish UK.

I have to confess to being in that gang. Most interestingly, 50 per cent of people who voted remain are also in that gang.

Unsurprisingly, only 42 per cent now think that the British government can get a good deal down from 52 per cent. I think a hard Brexit is looking more likely day by day but hope Tusk, Merkel and Macron have the will to yank Barnier's chain and get him to be more flexible but I fear not.

[EMR]

Originally Posted by Garbatellamike

interesting poll that shows 62 per cent in UK think Barnier is not trying to negotiate but is trying to punish UK.

I have to confess to being in that gang. Most interestingly, 50 per cent of people who voted remain are also in that gang.

Unsurprisingly, only 42 per cent now think that the British government can get a good deal down from 52 per cent. I think a hard Brexit is looking more likely day by day but hope Tusk, Merkel and Macron have the will to yank Barnier's chain and get him to be more flexible but I fear not.

What paper is the poll in, a brexit supporting one or is it from an unbiased polling organisation.
I interpret Barniers attitude as being " the UK has decided to leave so why should we make it easy for them ".
If I was negotiating on behalf of 26 other nations, it's the approach I would take.

[GeniB]

I see the argument is still going around and around...

Just read a great article by Simon Kuper (the guy who revealed the truth about the 'Oxford Sets involvement with each other,and their private agenda pre Brexit )

He likens the Europhobe Conservatives to the Xhosa tribe in Africa ,who in 1856 took the prophesy of a 15 yrs old girl (well I suspect her manipulative Uncle) to destroy all their cattle and crops. because she said ,that then their ancestors would return with better cattle and better crops and kill all the white men.They did what she and her uncle said.They died in their thousands of starvation. Those that fled to the cape became serfs to those very same white men. It was named the Cargo cult
kuper believes this is what we are going through now. The cult of the, past being better and brighter than now. A belief in Ancestor worship.. It explains the constant and persistent references to the war. Almost every other TV programme. now, wallowing in and glorifying something which should be behind us. Not forgotten,but finding its place in history.The weird thing is ,none of them remember the war,nor the time pre-war.Just the stories and the rhetoric about it.

If we look at Brexit this way,it becomes a whole other ball game. One about traditional class's exercising absolute power over the people.It therefore has nothing whatsoever to do with the EU.Trade deals ,or the price of fish.
The Xhosa girl and her uncle fled the country ..she lived for another 40 yrs in relative comfort.. We ought to think about what we are losing ,rather than a Utopian dream in some Conservatives fantasy future

[Garbatellamike]

Originally Posted by GeniB

I see the argument is still going around and around...

This comes as a surprise to you?

[Garbatellamike]

In other polling

Don't know polled 35 per cent vs 34 per cent for May and 33 per cent for Jezza as best leader - we are truely a nation divided and to think someone on here asserted the whple country shared her view.....

[007Steve]

Originally Posted by GeniB

I see the argument is still going around and around...

Just read a great article by Simon Kuper (the guy who revealed the truth about the 'Oxford Sets involvement with each other,and their private agenda pre Brexit )

He likens the Europhobe Conservatives to the Xhosa tribe in Africa ,who in 1856 took the prophesy of a 15 yrs old girl (well I suspect her manipulative Uncle) to destroy all their cattle and crops. because she said ,that then their ancestors would return with better cattle and better crops and kill all the white men.They did what she and her uncle said.They died in their thousands of starvation. Those that fled to the cape became serfs to those very same white men. It was named the Cargo cult
kuper believes this is what we are going through now. The cult of the, past being better and brighter than now. A belief in Ancestor worship.. It explains the constant and persistent references to the war. Almost every other TV programme. now, wallowing in and glorifying something which should be behind us. Not forgotten,but finding its place in history.The weird thing is ,none of them remember the war,nor the time pre-war.Just the stories and the rhetoric about it.

If we look at Brexit this way,it becomes a whole other ball game. One about traditional class's exercising absolute power over the people.It therefore has nothing whatsoever to do with the EU.Trade deals ,or the price of fish.
The Xhosa girl and her uncle fled the country ..she lived for another 40 yrs in relative comfort.. We ought to think about what we are losing ,rather than a Utopian dream in some Conservatives fantasy future

I just came across zargof's term - 'paleoconservatives' in another thread... well suited for this one?
... Sorry, my Betters, I just thought I'd get it in......
‘umbly
X(his mark)

[macliam]

Originally Posted by EMR

You were a UKIP supporter.

Have you finally lost it altogether? Show me anything, anywhere, to back up that statement!

[Former Lancastrian]

So I was watching a Canadian Political programme last night where it was said that if you look at article 50 there is nothing said in it about reversing withdrawal prior to the 2 years or extension granted as per # 3 in Article 50.

It mentions about countries triggering it and asking to be readmitted after leaving but not changing their mind during the 2 year period.

Article 50

So at 11 pm (2300 hrs) 29 March 2019 will the UK leave the EU or will there have been a deal to either extend the timeframe or will the UK reverse its decision to leave.
Perhaps someone has the ability to place a countdown clock in this thread

[jimenato]

Originally Posted by EMR

You were a UKIP supporter.

Errr... I think you might be a little confused...