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Old Jun 19th 2017, 10:39 pm   #18931
 
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

We haven't even got to the penalty kicks yet.
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Old Jun 19th 2017, 11:09 pm   #18932
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

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Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
We haven't even got to the penalty kicks yet.
We always lose those
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Old Jun 20th 2017, 12:09 am   #18933
 
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Where are our friends who kept telling us how the EU is faling apart, how the UK holds all the cards in this negotiation and that the EU would have to come crawling to us for a deal on our terms?


Brexit negotiations: Barnier rules out 'concessions' - BBC News

They seem to have gone a bit quiet after doing their bit to land us in this mess.


And from The Guardian:

"In contrast to well-rehearsed EU positions on issues such as the financial settlement and Irish borders, British officials admit they did not bring any prepared negotiating papers to share with their counterparts – insisting instead that their overall ambitions were made clear by the government’s white paper and Lancaster House speech."

Just how incompetent are these people?
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Old Jun 20th 2017, 5:36 am   #18934
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

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Originally Posted by DaveLovesDee View Post
I got a chuckle from the last two paragraphs:

Time to spell things out for the halfwit. “We need to remain calm,” Barnier said menacingly. Here was the deal. The EU hadn’t made any concessions because it hadn’t needed to. It was the UK that wanted to leave the EU, not the EU who had wanted to leave the UK. He had warned that there would be trouble if Britain left the EU, and if the Brits were stupid enough to go through with it, then they deserved everything they got. It wasn’t about the EU punishing the UK – it was just that the consequences of leaving the EU would inevitably be punishing.

Just as things were about to turn really nasty, an EU official called the press conference to an end. Barnier smoothed his tie and strode off, having added another goal in injury time.
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Old Jun 20th 2017, 6:55 am   #18935
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Anyway, this offers a more realistic perspective:

Is Britain just too self-absorbed to see the big picture?

Many years working in law, diplomacy, and, yes, even the military have taught us that in negotiations and operations, defeat is certain if one thinks of only one’s own perspective.


“Time spent in reconnaissance is seldom wasted” is a phrase well known to military planners. Likewise, good lawyers and diplomatic negotiators know what their side wants out of a negotiation, so spend most time thinking about the other side’s negotiating position and possible strategies. They look to the other side’s strengths and constraints to determine how to get the other side to agree to the outcome our side wants.

With the Brexit talks looming, have the British Government, the British people and British business thought enough about the other side’s view, or have we focused too much on our own view? Are we ready?

At a recent legal event, we heard that Germany has billions of euros of insurance underwritten in Britain every year. “Therefore,” the speaker said, “Germany has to give us a fair run as the Germans can’t afford to lose that business.” It is an optimistic British view but that is where the discussion stopped.

If the discussion had continued, thinking from the German side, another option would look viable. We all know that large businesses such as the insurance companies are looking at a Plan B option of moving at least some of their business to mainland Europe should Brexit negotiations not protect “passporting”. We know this because the businesses have said that this is what they are doing.

The Germans know this too.

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Old Jun 20th 2017, 7:05 am   #18936
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Quote:
Originally Posted by amideislas View Post
I got a chuckle from the last two paragraphs:

Time to spell things out for the halfwit. “We need to remain calm,” Barnier said menacingly. Here was the deal. The EU hadn’t made any concessions because it hadn’t needed to. It was the UK that wanted to leave the EU, not the EU who had wanted to leave the UK. He had warned that there would be trouble if Britain left the EU, and if the Brits were stupid enough to go through with it, then they deserved everything they got. It wasn’t about the EU punishing the UK – it was just that the consequences of leaving the EU would inevitably be punishing.

Just as things were about to turn really nasty, an EU official called the press conference to an end. Barnier smoothed his tie and strode off, having added another goal in injury time.
If you always search for the 'negative' you will probably find it!
We already knew the priorities of timetable! You are going to be busy in the coming months!

UK, EU kick off 'positive' Brexit talks
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Old Jun 20th 2017, 7:23 am   #18937
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

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We already knew the priorities of timetable!
Very true, we did. However, the Brexiteers were saying that the EU's schedule was nonsense and could safely be ignored as we'd threaten to walk away if they insisted on it.

It would have been better if they'd simply said at the outset that the talks would proceed in the sequence and at the pace dictated by the EU. That way they could have avoided looking incompetent and being forced into a rather embarrasing climb-down on day 1.

Nice try though. You're going to need quite a lot of stamina if you're going to attempt to re-write all of recent history in this manner.
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Old Jun 20th 2017, 7:25 am   #18938
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Right, then. Just think positive, and that'll force 'em into submission.
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Old Jun 20th 2017, 7:27 am   #18939
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

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Very true, we did. However, the Brexiteers were saying that the EU's schedule was nonsense and could safely be ignored as we'd threaten to walk away if they insisted on it.

It would have been better if they'd simply said at the outset that the talks would proceed in the sequence and at the pace dictated by the EU. That way they could have avoided looking incompetent and being forced into a rather embarrasing climb-down on day 1.

Nice try though. You're going to need quite a lot of stamina if you're going to attempt to re-write all of recent history in this manner.
It's pathetic isn't it.
The constant, pathetic point scoring we're going to witness is going to be unbearable.

Talking of pathetic and unbearable, where's Dick Dasterdly?
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Old Jun 20th 2017, 7:33 am   #18940
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

In honour of Dicky boy, I'll offer this "positive" breaking news:

Almost a year after the referendum, David Davis will arrive in Brussels to start charting a bright new future for the country.




OK, hubris aside, reality has always been "helpful" in mitigating Brexit's self-absorption. And now more than ever, reality is really sorting things out.

Day one of Brexit talks – and David Davis is learning fast... | The Telegraph

The journey towards Brexit has barely begun, but for David Davis the experience has already been rich with learning. In May last year, Mr Davis told the public that, after voting Leave, Britain’s first port of call should be “not Brussels, but Berlin”, in order to strike a trade deal with Germany.

“A UK-German deal,” he trumpeted, “would include free access for their cars and goods, in exchange for a deal on everything else. Similar deals would be reached with other key EU nations.”

After Mr Davis promised this, it was quietly explained to him that in fact it is not possible to strike a trade deal with Germany, or with any other individual EU nation. This is because the EU only ever strikes deals as a single bloc. That is, indeed, rather the point of the EU.


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Old Jun 20th 2017, 8:50 am   #18941
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

Quote:
Originally Posted by amideislas View Post
In honour of Dicky boy, I'll offer this "positive" breaking news:

Almost a year after the referendum, David Davis will arrive in Brussels to start charting a bright new future for the country.

https://i1.wp.com/www.isetnews.com/w...aperstoday.jpg


OK, hubris aside, reality has always been "helpful" in mitigating Brexit's self-absorption. And now more than ever, reality is really sorting things out.

Day one of Brexit talks – and David Davis is learning fast... | The Telegraph

The journey towards Brexit has barely begun, but for David Davis the experience has already been rich with learning. In May last year, Mr Davis told the public that, after voting Leave, Britain’s first port of call should be “not Brussels, but Berlin”, in order to strike a trade deal with Germany.

“A UK-German deal,” he trumpeted, “would include free access for their cars and goods, in exchange for a deal on everything else. Similar deals would be reached with other key EU nations.”

After Mr Davis promised this, it was quietly explained to him that in fact it is not possible to strike a trade deal with Germany, or with any other individual EU nation. This is because the EU only ever strikes deals as a single bloc. That is, indeed, rather the point of the EU.


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Isn't it you who keeps reminding us that any EU country can trade with any other country (under EU rules--of course).
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Old Jun 20th 2017, 9:11 am   #18942
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

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Isn't it you who keeps reminding us that any EU country can trade with any other country (under EU rules--of course).
Rules which those who selll and buy from other EU countries want to keep.
Rules which enable us to maximise trade with our single biggest customer the EU.
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Old Jun 20th 2017, 9:25 am   #18943
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

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Isn't it you who keeps reminding us that any EU country can trade with any other country (under EU rules--of course).
They can.

What the UK wanted to do was make a bilateral free trade agreement with Germany (which can't be done with an individual EU country). A trade deal that doesn't include tariff-free and customs-free access can be done with an individual EU country though on a limited basis.

People still get confused between trade deals and free trade agreements.
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Old Jun 20th 2017, 9:29 am   #18944
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

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Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
If you always search for the 'negative' you will probably find it!
We already knew the priorities of timetable! You are going to be busy in the coming months!

UK, EU kick off 'positive' Brexit talks
Can you quote the part where anything positive is mentioned in the article.

I note that the word 'positive' in the headline is in quote marks.
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Old Jun 20th 2017, 9:33 am   #18945
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Default Re: Post EU Referendum

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Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
Isn't it you who keeps reminding us that any EU country can trade with any other country (under EU rules--of course).
Yes, that's true. And if Britain someday manages to negotiate "free trade" and "customs" with the EU, Germany and 26 others can freely trade with Britain too. Otherwise, it's on WTO terms, with the usual tariff- and non-tariff trade barriers that come with that.

But that won't stop Britain from buying European goods. Britain doesn't produce enough to sustain itself. Europe on the other hand, isn't dependent upon Britain for anything existential. Whatever isn't produced in the EU can be acquired elsewhere (as it already is, under 750+ global EU trade agreements).

You can argue that Britain will simply trade elsewhere, but that's much too simplistic. First and most obvious, trading on WTO platform with anyone will be the same as its potential future relationship with the EU, so, why not (leading to the next point) just buy the stuff from Europe? It's likely be cheaper to source locally (known as "trade gravity"), and you don't have to establish all new supply chains of unknown reliability. It'll just be more expensive for Britain, no matter where Britain sources its imports.

Ahh, but there will be "free trade" agreements with everybody, right? ... well, not anytime soon. Those things take lots of resources, and many years to negotiate (unless Britain is willing to capitulate on key issues). Besides, Britain will be consumed with Brexit for the next decade or so...

In the mean time, the British electorate is already questioning the wisdom of all this. Britain is already in a state of moderate political turmoil. And should things go the way that's been consistently exhibited by the Brexit team, the electorate isn't going to become any more satisfied anytime soon.
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