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Old Sep 20th 2017, 3:24 pm   #46
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Default Re: Dear supreme being, please can you....

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Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
That's what I was thinking

And where the hell did all this ethnicity stuff get into the conversation. Again.
You have to allow people to defend their patch - and forgive the occasional error. I'm so long in the UK that I understand some of the thinking, but still have the luxury of an outsider's view - and my Portuguese is better than my Irish these days so I'm as likely to be shot by my own side as any other.

My point is that it's difficult for any country to take the moral high-ground - actions are seldom completely altruistic. The UKs stance on the acceptance of refugees was pathetic for a country with the population and the wealth it has - but they are quite active in the neighbouring countries. The German government had its own reasons in accepting refugees (not least to show moral leadership in Europe), but found itself marooned by the poor response of its nighbours.Europe’s asylum seekers did not equally disperse across countries | Pew Research Center
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Old Sep 20th 2017, 4:53 pm   #47
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Default Re: Dear supreme being, please can you....

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Originally Posted by Assanah View Post
I don't think that the UK and the US are the West. Germany didn't go around bombing other countries to the ground. So please if you are eager to differentiate ( which I support) do differentiate the West too please. Germany didn't bomb a country in the middle East yet it has accepted a million refugees from there. If you asked me that is what the West does, accepting refugees. Starting wars and toppling governments is an Anglo-Saxon thing 😙
Very good points. Thank you.
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Old Sep 20th 2017, 4:55 pm   #48
 
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Default Re: Dear supreme being, please can you....

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Originally Posted by macliam View Post
You have to allow people to defend their patch - and forgive the occasional error. I'm so long in the UK that I understand some of the thinking, but still have the luxury of an outsider's view - and my Portuguese is better than my Irish these days so I'm as likely to be shot by my own side as any other.

My point is that it's difficult for any country to take the moral high-ground - actions are seldom completely altruistic. The UKs stance on the acceptance of refugees was pathetic for a country with the population and the wealth it has - but they are quite active in the neighbouring countries. The German government had its own reasons in accepting refugees (not least to show moral leadership in Europe), but found itself marooned by the poor response of its nighbours.Europe’s asylum seekers did not equally disperse across countries | Pew Research Center
Don't disagree with any of that really, only ethnicity and genetic makeup are irrelevant.

And the UK has sold and continues to sell vast quantities of the weapons with which the wars are waged, whether the UK is otherwise involved in the war or not. We are second only to the US in arms sales, and we aren't picky about our customers.
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Old Sep 20th 2017, 5:19 pm   #49
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Default Re: Dear supreme being, please can you....

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Originally Posted by macliam View Post
This is a ridiculous argument. The grieving relatives of anyone will rail against whatever caused their loss - be that cancer, dementia, a drunk driver, an idiot with a gun, a terrorist or pure bad luck ..... so they are hadly the point of reference.

I think you need to look at the statistics to see whether the high profile is justified. Interestingly, according to the UK news, absolutely NOTHING has been going on in Syria or Iraq recently ..... or have they been "too busy" reporting other things? On the day of the totally amateurish London bombing, hardly any other news got a look in.

How would you feel if your relative was killed by an American plane mistakely hitting the wrong target? How would you feel if foreign troops refered to you as "towel heads" and presumed to know how to run your life better than you? How would you feel if the conflict killing your people was really just a sideshow in a much greater conflict?

How would you feel if your family were dying and some b*stard prevented you saving them because they thought you might be a threat to their comfortable existence?
The London bombing may as you say have been amateurish but the fact is innocent people were injured.

Don't you think that somewhere along the line there will be more bombings and people run over by motor vehicles either in the UK or the rest of Europe?

It cannot be stopped. Don't let the pols fool you. Europe is buggered already. There are million of Muslims living in run down neighborhoods in Paris, Brussels, London and Berlin. They feel disenfranchised, the younger ones feeling a sense of anger and resentment and lets face it they're not wanted even if very few native Europeans will openly say or admit it except members of the far right parties. Europe is not a melting pot. The only outcome of Merkel's disastrous refugee agenda is that parts of Europe will become balkanized with very large pockets of Muslims spread out all over the place either unable or unwilling to assimilate. The Muslim view of Christianity is that it's an infidel religion and for a Muslim to turn his or her back on the teachings of Mohammed and become Christian is the very worst sin that can be committed.

There is absolutely no sense in compounding the problem by allowing refugee status for millions more.

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Old Sep 20th 2017, 5:30 pm   #50
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Default Re: Dear supreme being, please can you....

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Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
Don't disagree with any of that really, only ethnicity and genetic makeup are irrelevant.

And the UK has sold and continues to sell vast quantities of the weapons with which the wars are waged, whether the UK is otherwise involved in the war or not. We are second only to the US in arms sales, and we aren't picky about our customers.
Well if the UK stopped selling arms then China, Russia, France. Germany and the US would fill the gap and the killing would go on as before. Lots of people in the UK would lose good paying jobs. That's a fact whether it's liked or not
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Old Sep 20th 2017, 5:34 pm   #51
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Default Re: Dear supreme being, please can you....

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Well if the UK stopped selling arms then China, Russia, France. Germany and the US would fill the gap and the killing would go on as before. Lots of people in the UK would lose good paying jobs. That's a fact whether it's liked or not
Hmmm, so if I don't sell heroin to the kids, somebody else will do it.....

Nice morals.
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Old Sep 20th 2017, 7:16 pm   #52
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Default Re: Dear supreme being, please can you....

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...Merkel's disastrous refugee agenda...
Why don't you have a proper look at the sequence of events and at what Merkel said and did rather than perpetuating this crap about her causing the refugee crisis?
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Old Sep 20th 2017, 8:02 pm   #53
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Default Re: Dear supreme being, please can you....

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Originally Posted by Assanah View Post
I don't think that the UK and the US are the West. Germany didn't go around bombing other countries to the ground. So please if you are eager to differentiate ( which I support) do differentiate the West too please. Germany didn't bomb a country in the middle East yet it has accepted a million refugees from there. If you asked me that is what the West does, accepting refugees. Starting wars and toppling governments is an Anglo-Saxon thing 😙
"Germany didn't go around bombing other countries to the ground"

You left out "recently".

Also, the "Anglo Saxon thing"?

Are you referring to the culture of the Germanic tribes that migrated to the British Isles from Continental Europe especially from Old Saxony in Northern Germany?
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Old Sep 20th 2017, 8:24 pm   #54
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Default Re: Dear supreme being, please can you....

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Why don't you have a proper look at the sequence of events and at what Merkel said and did rather than perpetuating this crap about her causing the refugee crisis?
She didn't cause the crisis. Britain, France and America caused it over 100 years of bad decisions and colonial misrule.

Merkel is causing a potential crisis in Europe with her policies
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Old Sep 20th 2017, 8:32 pm   #55
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Default Re: Dear supreme being, please can you....

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Hmmm, so if I don't sell heroin to the kids, somebody else will do it.....

Nice morals.
The armaments business is like the auto business. Thousands of small businesses supply the main factories with finished products that go into the final assembly.

What politician or government is going to scrap the arms business and risk putting thousands out of work?

The unemployed cannot feed families with "morals"

This is the reality whether you like it or not.
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Old Sep 20th 2017, 8:54 pm   #56
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Default Re: Dear supreme being, please can you....

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She didn't cause the crisis. Britain, France and America caused it over 100 years of bad decisions and colonial misrule.

Merkel is causing a potential crisis in Europe with her policies
By not treating Greece and Italy as refugee colonies with an endless capacity to absorb the inflow alone? With all the other problems on their (particularly Greece's) hands at the moment?

And what do you suggest should be done, given the current situation?
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Old Sep 20th 2017, 9:59 pm   #57
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Default Re: Dear supreme being, please can you....

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Originally Posted by dc koop View Post
The armaments business is like the auto business. Thousands of small businesses supply the main factories with finished products that go into the final assembly.

What politician or government is going to scrap the arms business and risk putting thousands out of work?

The unemployed cannot feed families with "morals"

This is the reality whether you like it or not.
It's not their morals I'm talking about, it's yours. Whilst people have your attitude nothing will change.... "Slaves?, oh well, what can we do, if I don't whip them somebody else will". Moral vacuum
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Europe is buggered already. There are million of Muslims living in run down neighborhoods in Paris, Brussels, London and Berlin. They feel disenfranchised, the younger ones feeling a sense of anger and resentment and lets face it they're not wanted even if very few native Europeans will openly say or admit it except members of the far right parties. Europe is not a melting pot. The only outcome of Merkel's disastrous refugee agenda is that parts of Europe will become balkanized with very large pockets of Muslims spread out all over the place either unable or unwilling to assimilate. The Muslim view of Christianity is that it's an infidel religion and for a Muslim to turn his or her back on the teachings of Mohammed and become Christian is the very worst sin that can be committed.
... and while we're at it, I have lived in a muslim country and I have muslim friends - their religion is their business and has little part in our relationship. You generalize as if every muslim has a seething hatred for "the infidel", which is about as true as suggesting that all christians think muslims should be burned as heretics. But all this is just an excuse to look the other way and ignore the mess caused in your name.
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There is absolutely no sense in compounding the problem by allowing refugee status for millions more.
Yep, let them all die. Case proven.
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Last edited by macliam; Sep 20th 2017 at 10:03 pm.
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Old Sep 21st 2017, 2:17 am   #58
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Default Re: Dear supreme being, please can you....

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Originally Posted by dc koop View Post
The Schengen agreement meant free movement of people within the European Community not an open door for people leaving the middle east.

What is happening now can only eventually cause increasing disunity within the EU the and the rise of extreme right wing political parties. This is already beginning to manifest itself

The writing is clearly on the wall for anyone to read
The Merkel definition of the word "solidarity" means "you do what I say or else". Don't forget Merkel was educated in East Germany.
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Old Sep 21st 2017, 5:07 am   #59
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Default Re: Dear supreme being, please can you....

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It's not their morals I'm talking about, it's yours. Whilst people have your attitude nothing will change.... "Slaves?, oh well, what can we do, if I don't whip them somebody else will". Moral vacuum

... and while we're at it, I have lived in a muslim country and I have muslim friends - their religion is their business and has little part in our relationship. You generalize as if every muslim has a seething hatred for "the infidel", which is about as true as suggesting that all christians think muslims should be burned as heretics. But all this is just an excuse to look the other way and ignore the mess caused in your name.

Yep, let them all die. Case proven.
I didn't say every Muslim has a seething hatred for westerners. What I said was that in the large cities across Europe there are thousands of young Muslim men who were born in Europe and live in the poorer areas of those cities who feel disenfranchised from society. Despite the fact that they are European born they do not feel part of it. This is where the danger is for the future safety of Europe. To make it worse they're not wanted. The failure to assimilate is going to cost Europe dearly in the decades to come .

This is a different situation from Muslims in America who live amongst the rest of the community, are in general better educated than those in Europe and very often working as doctors. dentists, engineers and so on
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Old Sep 21st 2017, 5:11 am   #60
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Default Re: Dear supreme being, please can you....

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The Merkel definition of the word "solidarity" means "you do what I say or else". Don't forget Merkel was educated in East Germany.
I'll give her about three more years until she's booted out. In the meantime she will continue to be a source of disunity amongst the EU countries especially those in eastern Europe.

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