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Old Sep 18th 2017, 12:16 am   #16
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Default Re: Dear supreme being, please can you....

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Woman is quite a menace, the Poles, Hungarians and Croats I have met don't quite view her as a savior of Europe- more see her decisions as the end of Western Europe and hope Eastern Europe will find a way to deal with.

I am not sure what Merkel's problem is, she seems an able administrator and not a stupid person.
I believe that as an older German (but not old enough to remember WW2 )she has like some Germans a guilt complex relating to the Holocaust and this desire to accept untold numbers of refugees is her way to correct a past injustice which occurred on a massive scale.

While the Holocaust should be mourned and remembered with sorrow not all Europeans agree with her way of thinking when it comes to the refugee problem.
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Old Sep 18th 2017, 12:21 am   #17
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Assimilation so far has failed to work. The scumbags who plowed into pedestrians in London lived all their lives in communities of people of their own race and religion. It seems they're either anchored too much to their local mosques and Mullahs who encourage them to stay close or that they feel dispossessed and start to research Jihadist groups on the Net as a way to get even with what they perceive as rejection.

Anyone who tells me that integration has been a success in Britain is just blowing hot air and in a complete state of denial
Oh, I don't know, the huguenots seem to be doing OK.

It takes time to assimilate and it's a two-way street. Some people never assimilate, but they learn to live within the norms of society. However, one thing that's constant is the existence of those seeking to blame "others" for the ills of the world.
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Old Sep 18th 2017, 12:30 am   #18
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Default Re: Dear supreme being, please can you....

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In your opinion, which is moot as you don't live in the EU. The CEAS binds those EU countries who are part of the schengen zone to a common set of principles in dealing with refugees. Either you accept the ruling or you seek an opt-out (and pay the price) - Hungary wants the aspects of the EU it likes, but not others (sound familiar?).

The "continued rise of extreme right wing political parties" was going on before the refugee crisis and before the EU, but, hey, why let the truth get in the way of your opinion?

The sad thing is, some people still seem to think that if they close their borders (and their eyes) that the problem will just go away.........
You can set all the principles you like but principle matter little if it means marching down the road to eventual disaster. The EU needs to renegotiate the rules amongst themselves or there's little or no hope of a united Europe of long lasting existence.

The one thing that the EU did that saved them from a complete tidal wave of refugees was the deal made with Turkey to stop the flow of refugees through Turkey in return for a lot of money to Turkey from the EU coffers.

That's a band aid solution and not guaranteed to remain in existence. Any vote by the UN in favour of a breakaway Kurdish state from Turkey and that deal goes down the toilet
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Old Sep 18th 2017, 12:35 am   #19
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Default Re: Dear supreme being, please can you....

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Oh, I don't know, the huguenots seem to be doing OK.

It takes time to assimilate and it's a two-way street. Some people never assimilate, but they learn to live within the norms of society. However, one thing that's constant is the existence of those seeking to blame "others" for the ills of the world.
Huguenots were just French Protestants who were no longer welcome in France . They easily integrated into English society since England was also Protestant and after all they were fellow Europeans whose history and culture was often connected with that of England.

Hardly the same as the situation with the current refugees is it ?

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Old Sep 18th 2017, 1:01 am   #20
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Huguenots were just French Protestants who were no longer welcome in France . They easily integrated into English society since England was also Protestant and after all they were fellow Europeans whose history and culture was often connected with that of England.

Hardly the same as the situation with the current refugees is it ?
And your answer to that problem is??? Pulling up the drawbridge won't help.

Check your history - Huguenots were seen as a problem, as were Jewish immigrants and immigrants from the "Empire". However, they have been absorbed, not always smoothly, but without disaster.

Conflating terrorism with refugees is just an attempt to duck responsibility for issues - death and destruction are Ok if somewhere else. Yes there is a danger, but the only solution is to target terrorism, not the refugees who are fleeing horrors inlicted upon them.
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Old Sep 18th 2017, 4:16 am   #21
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Oh, I don't know, the huguenots seem to be doing OK.

It takes time to assimilate and it's a two-way street. Some people never assimilate, but they learn to live within the norms of society. However, one thing that's constant is the existence of those seeking to blame "others" for the ills of the world.
Hugenot example often used but their entry was over a period of time, and never the same percentage of the population was foreign born or descendants as some of the percentages as our being seen today. And eventually the Hugenot influx was slowed and eventually disappeared, thus assimiliation did take place.Furthermore, the Hugenots were of a similar cultural orbit, and more of less similar religious beliefs- and as far as I know ( I am half Hugenot descent) I do not recall Hugenots not appreciative of their new home and committing terrorist acts.

No one blaming others for "ills of the world", but simply facing reality of from what groups is the terrorism emerging and being conducted.
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Old Sep 18th 2017, 4:24 am   #22
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And your answer to that problem is??? Pulling up the drawbridge won't help.

Check your history - Huguenots were seen as a problem, as were Jewish immigrants and immigrants from the "Empire". However, they have been absorbed, not always smoothly, but without disaster.

Conflating terrorism with refugees is just an attempt to duck responsibility for issues - death and destruction are Ok if somewhere else. Yes there is a danger, but the only solution is to target terrorism, not the refugees who are fleeing horrors inlicted upon them.
Pulling up the drawbridge will obviously help- anything the reduces the potential for either more threats, or people who may be responsible for generating new home-grown threats , is of some help.

I agree that last immigrant groups had issues they faced, but least there was some common ground on some level whether religious, linguistic, historic or cultural similarities.

The refugees/migrants and the terrorism issue do have a relation especially in the future. Dealing with that issue isn't "ducking" responsibility for actions in the Middle East, just common sense to protect one's own society.

Or I guess at what point does one determine a "disaster" occurs, or when something could be done without provoking in some countries ( ex Germany, Sweden, France) into civil war OR generating violent right-wing backlash on a larger scale ?
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Old Sep 18th 2017, 4:30 am   #23
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Default Re: Dear supreme being, please can you....

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Huguenots were just French Protestants who were no longer welcome in France . They easily integrated into English society since England was also Protestant and after all they were fellow Europeans whose history and culture was often connected with that of England.

Hardly the same as the situation with the current refugees is it ?
Situation kind of reminds me Lebanon, and what the Palestinians ( originally refugees) got up to in that country.
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Old Sep 18th 2017, 5:59 am   #24
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And your answer to that problem is??? Pulling up the drawbridge won't help.

Check your history - Huguenots were seen as a problem, as were Jewish immigrants and immigrants from the "Empire". However, they have been absorbed, not always smoothly, but without disaster.

Conflating terrorism with refugees is just an attempt to duck responsibility for issues - death and destruction are Ok if somewhere else. Yes there is a danger, but the only solution is to target terrorism, not the refugees who are fleeing horrors inlicted upon them.
How do you target terrorism carried out at random by individuals and not organized groups ? No great success so far in France, Germany and the UK or even here (the San Bernardino shootings). The immigrant communities contain individuals who will continue to carry out attacks anywhere at any time. The police will never admit it but there's very little they can do to stop such random acts. Better to try to nip it in the bud by not encouraging further immigration except in cases where a particular profession is in short supply and the refugee/s in question is/are qualified to fill that particular need.

At least the Huguenots and the Jews did not contain elements bent on carrying out a war in the name of their religion.

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Old Sep 18th 2017, 6:21 am   #25
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Situation kind of reminds me Lebanon, and what the Palestinians ( originally refugees) got up to in that country.
Beirut was once known as the Paris of the middle east. Ended up looking like Berlin 1945.
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Old Sep 18th 2017, 8:09 am   #26
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Situation kind of reminds me Lebanon, and what the Palestinians ( originally refugees) got up to in that country.
You mean as refugees when they were kicked out if their own country by the Israelis.
Or those massacred, men women, children by ultra Christian militia while the Israelis looked on and encouraged them.
Strange how ignorant of facts some of of those who claim to be academics are.
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Old Sep 18th 2017, 9:53 am   #27
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Default Re: Dear supreme being, please can you....

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How do you target terrorism carried out at random by individuals and not organized groups ? No great success so far in France, Germany and the UK or even here (the San Bernardino shootings). The immigrant communities contain individuals who will continue to carry out attacks anywhere at any time. The police will never admit it but there's very little they can do to stop such random acts. Better to try to nip it in the bud by not encouraging further immigration except in cases where a particular profession is in short supply and the refugee/s in question is/are qualified to fill that particular need.
So, your only answer is to pull up the drawbridge and leave the refugees to their fate. Nice of you.

You have more chance of being killed by one of your own gun-crazed lunatics than by a refugee, but hey, at least they might be white, eh?
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Beirut was once known as the Paris of the middle east. Ended up looking like Berlin 1945.
I think we get your idea ..... all refugees (especially Arabs) are inherently evil. etc., etc.
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Old Sep 18th 2017, 1:34 pm   #28
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You mean as refugees when they were kicked out if their own country by the Israelis.
Or those massacred, men women, children by ultra Christian militia while the Israelis looked on and encouraged them.
Strange how ignorant of facts some of of those who claim to be academics are.
The point was simply what happened to Lebanon after the Palestinian refugees arrived, not the actions of the Israelis. Why should Lebanon have had to suffer after extending such courtesy to the refugees in the first place ?Why did the Christians in Lebanon have to form such militias in the first place ?

Ignorant of facts ? The facts you mentioned have nothing to do with the discussion.
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Old Sep 18th 2017, 1:42 pm   #29
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So, your only answer is to pull up the drawbridge and leave the refugees to their fate. Nice of you.

You have more chance of being killed by one of your own gun-crazed lunatics than by a refugee, but hey, at least they might be white, eh?

I think we get your idea ..... all refugees (especially Arabs) are inherently evil. etc., etc.
No one is saying all Arabs are inherently evil, just common sense is required looking at reality of the problem, its sources, and how current policies are not better controlling the situation. If just 10 out of a thousand are prone to potentially being terrorist, and another 100 out of a thousand sympathetic to the objectives of the Islamists, why bring more in ? Isnt that just increasing the current and future terrorist threat ?

By all means the refugees should be helped on the ground in there own region of the world, and if they are truly refugees I assume they would welcome the opportunity to be close to a return home. And certainly re-evaluating the foreign policy strategy for better options/path towards resolving the issue certainly should be done as well.


It is patently absurd to think Europe can maintain its standard of living and culture if it has an open door policy to any number of refugees from every where in the world to come. The west defends nations like Saudi Arabia, who fund much of the extremist Islamist ideology, and then takes in their Syrian and other brethren though Saudi Arabia has the resources and space for them. Truly a world gone mad.
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Old Sep 18th 2017, 1:52 pm   #30
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If Europe actually had an "open door policy" with respect to immigration, I might have to agree with you.

Ask an Argentinian or a Canadian or even a US citizen wanting to emigrate to Europe how it's going for them so far.

Fortunately, it doesn't, and I don't.
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