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Old Oct 2nd 2017, 8:37 pm   #91
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Default Re: Las Vegas shooting

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Originally Posted by Shard View Post
Irrelevant. False equivalency.
How is that a false equivalency? People out to murder large numbers of people.
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Old Oct 2nd 2017, 8:47 pm   #92
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Default Re: Las Vegas shooting

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Originally Posted by robin1234 View Post
Explain please. I thought the data shows a significant decrease in gun ownership over the long term?
Will do. The article I was referencing speculated there could be anywhere from 410-660 million. It's an extrapolation based on ATF records.
http://weaponsman.com/?p=33875

And this talks about the percentage of people admitting ownership.
The Myth Of "Declining" Gun Ownersh | The Daily Caller

Shard, go ahead and try re: confiscation. I think there would be a lot of violence if they went door-to-door, and let's face it, it's probably not going to happen. The wither-on-the-vine method would be the way for the antis to go.
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Old Oct 2nd 2017, 8:53 pm   #93
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Default Re: Las Vegas shooting

If you take away guns, people may start to use vehicles and improvised explosives. Guns are banned in the UK, but did that stop the London or Manchester atrocities?

Banning guns may not be the answer. It appears this guy did not have many friends and had a rough childhood. I bet there was no support network. It sounds like he use gambling to deal with his issues until maybe it stopped working.
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Old Oct 2nd 2017, 8:56 pm   #94
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Default Re: Las Vegas shooting

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Originally Posted by robin1234 View Post
Explain please. I thought the data shows a significant decrease in gun ownership over the long term?
There was a decrease in gun purchases after the perceived big bad black president left office...but the fact remains that the u.s. with less than 5% of the worlds population has more than 50% of the worlds private gun ownership. There are approximately 12% more guns than there are people in the u.s.
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Old Oct 2nd 2017, 8:57 pm   #95
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Default Re: Las Vegas shooting

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Originally Posted by mrken30 View Post
If you take away guns, people may start to use vehicles and improvised explosives. Guns are banned in the UK, but did that stop the London or Manchester atrocities?

Banning guns may not be the answer. It appears this guy did not have many friends and had a rough childhood. I bet there was no support network. It sounds like he use gambling to deal with his issues until maybe it stopped working.
He was 64 years old. The "blame my parents" phase of his life expired quite a long time ago.
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Old Oct 2nd 2017, 8:58 pm   #96
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Default Re: Las Vegas shooting

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Originally Posted by robin1234 View Post
That's your response? "Thoughts and prayers" then.
No really. Disarm the country as Lion said. How ?
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Old Oct 2nd 2017, 9:22 pm   #97
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Default Re: Las Vegas shooting

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Originally Posted by Hiro11 View Post
Some contrarian points:

1. States with some of the lowest rates of guns per capita (e.g. Michigan, Illinois) have far higher rates of gun violence than states with far higher rates of guns per capita (e.g. Wyoming, Arkansas). Also, rural areas in the US typically have far higher rates of guns per capita than urban areas and yet rural areas have far lower rates of gun violence. In other words, the mere presence of more guns doesn't necessarily mean more gun violence. The situation is more complicated than that and involves culture, economic realities and education.

2. Formulating policy recommendations based on mass shootings (which are tragic, grab all the headlines and prompt most of these discussions) won't address the far more common and far more deadly problem of grinding data to day gang violence in cities. If we're really serious about reducing gun violence in the US, any solution must address the culture of violence in these dangerous neighborhoods first. Again, the solutions to these gang violence problems are likely far more complex than simply gun control. For example Chicago's blanket gun ban coincided with a dramatic increase in gun violence in Chicago. I'm not saying there's a correlation there, I'm saying that simply banning guns without taking other actions likely won't solve the problem.

3. The levels of non-suicide gun violence in this country are lower than they've been in over 50 years. We are not in a "crisis". Obviously progress has been made and some solutions have worked. Clearly we as Americans have a way to go. Policy recommendations should be focused first on what these successes were and why they worked.

I'm not a gun owner and I abhor violence of any kind. I agree (and it seems obvious) that some sort of additional gun control / ammunition control / gun policing should be part of the solution to the problem. However, oversimplification or focusing entirely on gun control (as MANY tend to do) isn't going to solve the problem. Improved employment opportunities in "bad neighborhoods", better education, better early identification of "at risk" youths, better mental health care etc... all are part of a complex set of solutions that are likely necessary here. The focus entirely on gun control as if the solution is obvious is not helpful. In fact, focusing entirely on gun control turns the issue into a political one and is therefore decidedly unhelpful. The stereotypes, platitudes and oversimplifications that constantly plague these threads don't add any value. Any solution that doesn't address the true complexities of gun violence in the US is worthless.

/copy paste into other threads here.
There is something, or a combination of things, that is different about America - that makes this kind of event commonplace there and not so in the rest of the world.

Establishing what it is that is different is the first step in solving the problem.

Only once that has been done can you attempt to do something about it.
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Old Oct 2nd 2017, 9:24 pm   #98
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Default Re: Las Vegas shooting

Mental illness might well have been a factor. His father was a psycopathic bank robber.

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Old Oct 2nd 2017, 9:24 pm   #99
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Default Re: Las Vegas shooting

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Originally Posted by Leslie View Post
He was 64 years old. The "blame my parents" phase of his life expired quite a long time ago.
Totally agree, but formative years may still apply. But support is not just for children, sometimes adults need support.
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Old Oct 2nd 2017, 9:35 pm   #100
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Default Re: Las Vegas shooting

It sounds like he was using a "gat crank". The tempo seemed to change a bit.
Expect to see those banned.

He could've drilled out the lower and put in a three point selector from an M-16 kit (you can buy them for $250 online) but it's highly illegal. And also the feed ramps and bolt carrier group - and the barrel - would have to be replaced to do full auto.

I'm guessing it's the former.
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Old Oct 2nd 2017, 9:42 pm   #101
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Default Re: Las Vegas shooting

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Originally Posted by jimenato View Post
There is something, or a combination of things, that is different about America - that makes this kind of event commonplace there and not so in the rest of the world.

Establishing what it is that is different is the first step in solving the problem.

Only once that has been done can you attempt to do something about it.
I'll say again that mass shooting are relatively rare (when compared to other US gun violence) and are not the real problem here. Mass shootings are tragic but largely a red herring.

On the other hand, I 100% agree that gun violence is an American cultural problem as much (or more) than it is a gun control issue. I would also stress that the culture of gun violence isn't equally spread across the US, it's highly localized. Unless we address these local culture issues, nothing is going to change.
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Old Oct 2nd 2017, 9:56 pm   #102
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Default Re: Las Vegas shooting

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Originally Posted by markonline1 View Post
I was just told by someone on a different forum that it was his god given right to own guns.
Right wing radio just explained this one fully and completely, the presenter was quite proud of himself. It was of course as fragile as you would expect.

1. The Founders (those demi-gods themselves) said our rights are god given, so everything that flows from that is from god apparently.
2. Jesus was not against self-defence.

That's it. But that's more than enough for the conversation to be at an end from their perspective.
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Old Oct 2nd 2017, 9:58 pm   #103
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Default Re: Las Vegas shooting

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Originally Posted by dakota44 View Post
There was a decrease in gun purchases after the perceived big bad black president left office...but the fact remains that the u.s. with less than 5% of the worlds population has more than 50% of the worlds private gun ownership. There are approximately 12% more guns than there are people in the u.s.
Well maybe. But the data shows a steady and significant decline in gun ownership from the 1970s till now. Octang F. doubted the reliability of that data, he may be correct, I was just wondering what grounds he had.
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Old Oct 2nd 2017, 10:01 pm   #104
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Default Re: Las Vegas shooting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Octang Frye View Post
Will do. The article I was referencing speculated there could be anywhere from 410-660 million. It's an extrapolation based on ATF records.
http://weaponsman.com/?p=33875

And this talks about the percentage of people admitting ownership.
The Myth Of "Declining" Gun Ownersh | The Daily Caller

Shard, go ahead and try re: confiscation. I think there would be a lot of violence if they went door-to-door, and let's face it, it's probably not going to happen. The wither-on-the-vine method would be the way for the antis to go.
OK sorry. I didn't see this post when I just replied to another post. Thanks!
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Old Oct 2nd 2017, 10:05 pm   #105
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Default Re: Las Vegas shooting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Octang Frye View Post
It sounds like he was using a "gat crank". The tempo seemed to change a bit.
Expect to see those banned.

He could've drilled out the lower and put in a three point selector from an M-16 kit (you can buy them for $250 online) but it's highly illegal. And also the feed ramps and bolt carrier group - and the barrel - would have to be replaced to do full auto.

I'm guessing it's the former.
This is a quote from the makers of the Gat Crank, I would probably agree with them.

You can definitely fire your AR-15 much faster with your standard trigger but I’m guessing the GatCrank 15 wasn’t invented just to throw lead downrange quickly but as a fun range toy.
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