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Old Oct 2nd 2017, 8:11 pm   #76
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Default Re: Las Vegas shooting

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Originally Posted by dc koop View Post
Sad thing is that there's nothing that can be done to stop these things occurring in the future. Many of the shooters are just weirdo creeps who suddenly come out of the woodwork, often loners but being a loner isn't against the law either

Are we now going to have to go through metal detectors when checking in and out of Vaegas hotels?
This is the problem with the USA in a nutshell. Citizens assume that there are no solutions to public policy problems. So "thoughts and prayers."
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Old Oct 2nd 2017, 8:12 pm   #77
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Default Re: Las Vegas shooting

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Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
Yes, there is.

Disarm the ****ing country.

Enough.
Let's say you're in power; how do you practically propose the collection/confiscation of hundreds of millions of guns? Carrots, sticks? Penalties. Door-to-door probably won't go down very well, and a cop friend of mine said it's the last thing he and his colleagues want to get stuck with.

Remember also last year's Nice attack, killing 86, used a truck.
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Old Oct 2nd 2017, 8:17 pm   #78
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Default Re: Las Vegas shooting

Some contrarian points:

1. States with some of the lowest rates of guns per capita (e.g. Michigan, Illinois) have far higher rates of gun violence than states with far higher rates of guns per capita (e.g. Wyoming, Arkansas). Also, rural areas in the US typically have far higher rates of guns per capita than urban areas and yet rural areas have far lower rates of gun violence. In other words, the mere presence of more guns doesn't necessarily mean more gun violence. The situation is more complicated than that and involves culture, economic realities and education.

2. Formulating policy recommendations based on mass shootings (which are tragic, grab all the headlines and prompt most of these discussions) won't address the far more common and far more deadly problem of grinding data to day gang violence in cities. If we're really serious about reducing gun violence in the US, any solution must address the culture of violence in these dangerous neighborhoods first. Again, the solutions to these gang violence problems are likely far more complex than simply gun control. For example Chicago's blanket gun ban coincided with a dramatic increase in gun violence in Chicago. I'm not saying there's a correlation there, I'm saying that simply banning guns without taking other actions likely won't solve the problem.

3. The levels of non-suicide gun violence in this country are lower than they've been in over 50 years. We are not in a "crisis". Obviously progress has been made and some solutions have worked. Clearly we as Americans have a way to go. Policy recommendations should be focused first on what these successes were and why they worked.

I'm not a gun owner and I abhor violence of any kind. I agree (and it seems obvious) that some sort of additional gun control / ammunition control / gun policing should be part of the solution to the problem. However, oversimplification or focusing entirely on gun control (as MANY tend to do) isn't going to solve the problem. Improved employment opportunities in "bad neighborhoods", better education, better early identification of "at risk" youths, better mental health care etc... all are part of a complex set of solutions that are likely necessary here. The focus entirely on gun control as if the solution is obvious is not helpful. In fact, focusing entirely on gun control turns the issue into a political one and is therefore decidedly unhelpful. The stereotypes, platitudes and oversimplifications that constantly plague these threads don't add any value. Any solution that doesn't address the true complexities of gun violence in the US is worthless.

/copy paste into other threads here.
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Old Oct 2nd 2017, 8:24 pm   #79
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Default Re: Las Vegas shooting

Well this didn't take long. Now if only someone would sew this disgusting arsewipes mouth shut.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/alex-j...-along-with-it
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Old Oct 2nd 2017, 8:25 pm   #80
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Default Re: Las Vegas shooting

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Originally Posted by Bipat View Post
improved psychiatric health care is important.
This guy Paddock had no history of mental illness, at least based on what is known to date.

How do you profile a mass shooter before he commits the actual deed?

Last edited by Jerseygirl; Oct 2nd 2017 at 8:28 pm. Reason: Cocked up quote
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Old Oct 2nd 2017, 8:25 pm   #81
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Default Re: Las Vegas shooting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Octang Frye View Post
Let's say you're in power; how do you practically propose the collection/confiscation of hundreds of millions of guns? Carrots, sticks? Penalties. Door-to-door probably won't go down very well, and a cop friend of mine said it's the last thing he and his colleagues want to get stuck with.

Remember also last year's Nice attack, killing 86, used a truck.
Reduction of firearms won't happen overnight, but it should start somewhere. In 20 years people may think less about owning guns.

The Nice truck...totally irrelevant. It's like making the argument that heroin shouldn't be banned because, remember alcohol messes people up too.
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Old Oct 2nd 2017, 8:27 pm   #82
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Default Re: Las Vegas shooting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
Yes, there is.

Disarm the ****ing country.

Enough.
Suggestions please on how to confiscate around 300 million firearms and yes there are estimated to be that number in circulation.
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Old Oct 2nd 2017, 8:30 pm   #83
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Default Re: Las Vegas shooting

Quote:
Originally Posted by dc koop View Post
Suggestions please on how to confiscate around 300 million firearms and yes there are estimated to be that number in circulation.
That's your response? "Thoughts and prayers" then.
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Old Oct 2nd 2017, 8:31 pm   #84
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Default Re: Las Vegas shooting

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Originally Posted by Shard View Post
Reduction of firearms won't happen overnight, but it should start somewhere. In 20 years people may think less about owning guns.

The Nice truck...totally irrelevant. It's like making the argument that heroin shouldn't be banned because, remember alcohol messes people up too.
That was/is the plan.

"What we need to do is change the way in which people think about guns, especially young people, and make it something that’s not cool, that it’s not acceptable, it’s not hip to carry a gun anymore, in the way in which we changed our attitudes about cigarettes," Holder said. He later added, "We have to be repetitive about this. It’s not enough to have a catchy ad on a Monday and then only do it Monday. We need to do this every day of the week, and just really brainwash people into thinking about guns in a vastly different way." Attorney General Eric Holder

And no, the Nice truck is totally germane. We're talking about people trying to kill large numbers of other people. The Batman theatre shooter - he could've taken down 200 people with a couple of door wedges and a gallon of gasoline.
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Old Oct 2nd 2017, 8:32 pm   #85
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Default Re: Las Vegas shooting

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Originally Posted by dc koop View Post
Suggestions please on how to confiscate around 300 million firearms and yes there are estimated to be that number in circulation.
Apply heavy fines (eg. $50,000) for the possession of the lethal grades of weapons and an amnesty to turn them in. It's a start. Britain reduced guns in circulation (admittedly not a widescale phenomena) post Dunblane. The USA can land a rover on Mars, it can collect some frikin' guns if it wanted to.
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Old Oct 2nd 2017, 8:32 pm   #86
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Default Re: Las Vegas shooting

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Suggestions please on how to confiscate around 300 million firearms and yes there are estimated to be that number in circulation.
The number is actually closer to 700 million.
And they'll keep telling you gun ownership is dropping. It isn't.
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Old Oct 2nd 2017, 8:34 pm   #87
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Default Re: Las Vegas shooting

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Originally Posted by Octang Frye View Post
And no, the Nice truck is totally germane. We're talking about people trying to kill large numbers of other people. The Batman theatre shooter - he could've taken down 200 people with a couple of door wedges and a gallon of gasoline.
Irrelevant. False equivalency.
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Old Oct 2nd 2017, 8:36 pm   #88
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Default Re: Las Vegas shooting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shard View Post
Apply heavy fines (eg. $50,000) for the possession of the lethal grades of weapons and an amnesty to turn them in. It's a start. Britain reduced guns in circulation (admittedly not a widescale phenomena) post Dunblane. The USA can land a rover on Mars, it can collect some frikin' guns if it wanted to.
What is a "lethal grade" of weapon?

And thanks for answering.
How many people would "hand 'em all in" do you think? I'm guess 25%
I think there would be loads of "boating accidents" etc.
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Old Oct 2nd 2017, 8:36 pm   #89
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Default Re: Las Vegas shooting

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Originally Posted by Lion in Winter View Post
Yes, there is.

Disarm the ****ing country.

Enough.
Now is not the time to disarm, we're being shot at.

The shootings won't stop until the Bush-Koch international crime family is off the political stage.
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Old Oct 2nd 2017, 8:37 pm   #90
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Default Re: Las Vegas shooting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Octang Frye View Post
The number is actually closer to 700 million.
And they'll keep telling you gun ownership is dropping. It isn't.
Explain please. I thought the data shows a significant decrease in gun ownership over the long term?
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