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Old Oct 6th 2017, 8:31 pm   #451
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Default Re: Las Vegas shooting

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Dakota, you were a candidate? Why didn't you let us know?
I was on the ballot in Hell, Michigan. My only chance was if Hell froze over..and it didn't.
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Old Oct 6th 2017, 8:32 pm   #452
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Default Re: Las Vegas shooting

Consequence of over-population. The more people we have, the more wackos in the mix. Isolated incidents like this are remarkable because they are rare, and rare because technically it isn't a war zone. 60 dead is just a bad day at the market in Baghdad or Kabul, maybe 2 markets with separate bombers, and it's in the paper every week or two but I find it just sort of washes past me and wish I had more empathy. Media shock I guess.
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Old Oct 6th 2017, 8:35 pm   #453
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Default Re: Las Vegas shooting

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Consequence of over-population. The more people we have, the more wackos in the mix. Isolated incidents like this are remarkable because they are rare, and rare because technically it isn't a war zone. 60 dead is just a bad day at the market in Baghdad or Kabul, maybe 2 markets with separate bombers, and it's in the paper every week or two but I find it just sort of washes past me and wish I had more empathy. Media shock I guess.
273 mass shootings so far this year is hardly a case of isolated incidents. That's 1 a day.
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Old Oct 6th 2017, 8:37 pm   #454
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Default Re: Las Vegas shooting

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273 mass shootings so far this year is hardly a case of isolated incidents. That's 1 a day.
Point taken, I should have said "of this magnitude".
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Old Oct 6th 2017, 8:38 pm   #455
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Default Re: Las Vegas shooting

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And if we were going to base a decision on pure data, the numbers say we would be better off without them than with them.
Tends to be the case.
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Old Oct 6th 2017, 9:02 pm   #456
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Default Re: Las Vegas shooting

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Originally Posted by dakota44 View Post
273 mass shootings so far this year is hardly a case of isolated incidents. That's 1 a day.
Only one I believe reported in Canada so far in 2017 on complete innocent people i.e. not targeted other gang members or murders of a family.
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Old Oct 6th 2017, 10:24 pm   #457
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Default Re: Las Vegas shooting

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Originally Posted by dakota44 View Post
273 mass shootings so far this year is hardly a case of isolated incidents. That's 1 a day.
Given that this is the 1,256,678th time this has been mentioned in this thread, I believe this statistic needs some context.

Firstly, no official entity tracks "mass shootings" and as a result the definitions vary widely. As a result, the number of "mass shootings" this year varies from 7 to 276 based on who you ask and how they define "mass shooting":
Was the Las Vegas mass shooting the 273rd this year? Or the seventh? Or somewhere in between? | PolitiFact Wisconsin

This article seems somewhat reasonable and is based on mainstream sources. A sample quote from the article:
Quote:
The Washington Post counted 131 events in which four or more people were killed by a lone shooter (or two shooters in three cases), dating back to the University of Texas tower killings in 1966. That’s an average of less than three mass shootings per year.
The ~7 a year estimate comes from Mother Jones.

Here's a listing of "mass shootings" as defined by 4 or more people being shot with no other related crime:

Mass Shootings | Gun Violence Archive

This is the data that underlies the "one a day" statements. Make up your own mind as to whether these events are comparable to what we saw in Las Vegas. Again, there's no doubt that regardless of these semantic arguments about the definition of "mass shooting", this is an unacceptable level of violence. However, using a loaded term like "mass shooting" could be misleading.
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Old Oct 6th 2017, 11:01 pm   #458
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Default Re: Las Vegas shooting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiro11 View Post
Given that this is the 1,256,678th time this has been mentioned in this thread, I believe this statistic needs some context.

Firstly, no official entity tracks "mass shootings" and as a result the definitions vary widely. As a result, the number of "mass shootings" this year varies from 7 to 276 based on who you ask and how they define "mass shooting":
Was the Las Vegas mass shooting the 273rd this year? Or the seventh? Or somewhere in between? | PolitiFact Wisconsin

This article seems somewhat reasonable and is based on mainstream sources. A sample quote from the article:

The ~7 a year estimate comes from Mother Jones.

Here's a listing of "mass shootings" as defined by 4 or more people being shot with no other related crime:

Mass Shootings | Gun Violence Archive

This is the data that underlies the "one a day" statements. Make up your own mind as to whether these events are comparable to what we saw in Las Vegas. Again, there's no doubt that regardless of these semantic arguments about the definition of "mass shooting", this is an unacceptable level of violence. However, using a loaded term like "mass shooting" could be misleading.

Do a tad more research. In your view apparently...if no one dies but if multiple people are wounded...that doesn't count. Pretty sad argument. I will stick with the "4 or more people killed or wounded" definition(273 incidents). . Any other definition is just an NRA talking point joke.
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Old Oct 6th 2017, 11:08 pm   #459
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Default Re: Las Vegas shooting

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Oh man.

"Tin soldiers and Nixon coming ..."
Oh yeah !

BTW, there's a new thread in the Maple Leaf which might appeal to you...
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Old Oct 6th 2017, 11:10 pm   #460
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Default Re: Las Vegas shooting

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Um, yes it does. Remember the Bundy stand-off with the BLM (Bureau of Land Management)? Or any protest with open carriers are present. I have yet to see the police beat any of these people up, or fire any shots. Indeed, the open carriers have never fired a shot as I recall.
Well they were white, Ferguson and Baltimore were a different story.

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Old Oct 6th 2017, 11:29 pm   #461
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Default Re: Las Vegas shooting

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That tells me the Founding Fathers felt pretty strongly about it.
In this sense.

Note that there could be a permanent navy, but not a standing army. Note also the Constitution explicitly states what militias do: they make sure the laws are followed, suppress insurrections, and repel invasions. This was a lesson learned after Shays Rebellion of 1786-1787 and The Whiskey Rebellion 1791-1794. The Militia Act of 1792 also explicitly directs the president’s use of militias; see The Militia Act of 1792.

And this.
The Militia Act of 1792


And this.

“That every citizen, so enrolled and notified, shall, within six months thereafter, provide himself with a good musket or firelock, a sufficient bayonet and belt, two spare flints, and a knapsack, a pouch, with a box therein, to contain not less than twenty four cartridges, suited to the bore of his musket or firelock, each cartridge to contain a proper quantity of powder and ball; or with a good rifle, knapsack, shot-pouch, and powder-horn, twenty balls suited to the bore of his rifle, and a quarter of a pound of powder; and shall appear so armed, accoutred and provided, when called out to exercise or into service, except, that when called out on company days to exercise only, he may appear without a knapsack.”

The National Guard fills that role now.

The entire intent of the 2nd was thr defense of the country and put down insurections. PERIOD. Nothing to do with the gun insanity ee have today.
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Old Oct 6th 2017, 11:39 pm   #462
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Default Re: Las Vegas shooting

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Originally Posted by dakota44 View Post
In this sense.

Note that there could be a permanent navy, but not a standing army. Note also the Constitution explicitly states what militias do: they make sure the laws are followed, suppress insurrections, and repel invasions. This was a lesson learned after Shays Rebellion of 1786-1787 and The Whiskey Rebellion 1791-1794. The Militia Act of 1792 also explicitly directs the president’s use of militias; see The Militia Act of 1792.

And this.
The Militia Act of 1792


And this.

“That every citizen, so enrolled and notified, shall, within six months thereafter, provide himself with a good musket or firelock, a sufficient bayonet and belt, two spare flints, and a knapsack, a pouch, with a box therein, to contain not less than twenty four cartridges, suited to the bore of his musket or firelock, each cartridge to contain a proper quantity of powder and ball; or with a good rifle, knapsack, shot-pouch, and powder-horn, twenty balls suited to the bore of his rifle, and a quarter of a pound of powder; and shall appear so armed, accoutred and provided, when called out to exercise or into service, except, that when called out on company days to exercise only, he may appear without a knapsack.”

The National Guard fills that role now.

The entire intent of the 2nd was thr defense of the country and put down insurections. PERIOD. Nothing to do with the gun insanity ee have today.
I'm reasonably sure there is a SC ruling saying the 2nd Amendment's militia is not the NG. Or maybe it's in the commentry of a ruling because I can't find the info now.

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Old Oct 6th 2017, 11:51 pm   #463
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Default Re: Las Vegas shooting

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I'm reasonably sure there is a SC ruling saying the 2nd Amendment's militia is not the NG.
Pretty sure you are wrong...so go find it. The only ruling I sm aware of was re: the Washington DC gun ban where court sait 5 t0 4 that one did not have to be part of a militia to own a gun.

But what exactly do you think was the origin of th National Guard? Please explain that to this veteran who aslo later served in a mechanized infantry Company of the National Guard.
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Old Oct 7th 2017, 12:07 am   #464
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Default Re: Las Vegas shooting

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Originally Posted by anotherlimey View Post
I'm reasonably sure there is a SC ruling saying the 2nd Amendment's militia is not the NG.
Pretty sure you are wrong...so go find it. The only ruling I sm aware of was re: the Washington DC gun ban where court sait 5 t0 4 that one did not have to be part of a militia to own a gun.

But what exactly do you think the reason was for establishing the National Guard? Please explain that to this veteran who aslo served in the mechanized infantry of the National Guard. Sorry for being prickly. Just touched a nerve.

"State) differs from the National Guard of the United States; however, the two do go hand-in-hand.

The National Guard is a militia force organized by each of the states and territories of the United States. Established under Title 10 and Title 32 of the U.S. Code, state National Guard serves as part of the first-line defense for the United States.[48] The state National Guard is divided up into units stationed in each of the 54 states and U.S. territories and operates under their respective state governor or territorial government.[49] The National Guard may be called up for active duty by the state governors or territorial commanding generals to help respond to domestic emergencies and disasters, such as those caused by hurricanes, floods, and earthquakes.[49]"

And there is the founders well organized militia. The numbnuts running around playin Rambo in the bush...sre not.
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Old Oct 7th 2017, 1:58 am   #465
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Default Re: Las Vegas shooting

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Originally Posted by Octang Frye View Post
Universal background checks - this guy passed background checks. Multiple times. They always do.
Well maybe they are not thorough enough (just nodded through?) or perhaps there should be some ongoing checks as there are in many other walks of life.

Quote:
Licensing and registration? What is that going to do to prevent an attack? Absolutely nothing. How are you going to retroactively license (what does that even mean?) and register them?
Anything wrong with giving a licence and each purchase of a gun is recorded so that at some point someone starts to ask questions? There are procedures in place to prevent people collecting multiple safe prescription drugs. Why not guns?

If someone has to "make themselves known" and draw attention to themselves with every purchase perhaps they are less likely to plan this kind of thing.

Quote:
Limit the number of weapons people can buy? What's the arbitrary amount?
What about one. If you "need" more then make a case for it.

If you want to build a conservatory or a deck you need a permit. You have to go through a process. Why not for a gun?

Just because you built that conservatory and got a permit, you still need to follow the procedure again for a deck. It's not carte blanche.

Want to use part of your house for commercial business or rentals? Rezoning or some such. You apply, people can raise an objection. But not for a gun? That's weird.

Quote:
The truth is, just like when you buy toilet paper in bulk from Costco, shooters buy in bulk too. And people's shooting habits differ, too.
But why? If self defence is the argument, just how many attackers is someone defending themselves against?
If different shooting habits justify different needs why not account for that, perhaps different types of licences...you know, a bit like how someone needs to drive an HGV but they're not allowed to with their normal licence.
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The man was obviously highly prejudiced. I wasn't going to censor him on his ignorance. At his age any attempt to educate him otherwise was a no go
Plus he might have shot you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiro11 View Post
Given that this is the 1,256,678th time this has been mentioned in this thread, I believe this statistic needs some context...this is an unacceptable level of violence. However, using a loaded term like "mass shooting" could be misleading.
I don't know. Sounds like trying to underplay it.

I see that a woman was shot in her car somewhere last week. At a vigil this week in mourning, 4 people were shot dead.

Since Sunday. Four shot dead at a vigil. FFS.
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