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Old Sep 21st 2017, 10:28 pm   #76
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Default Re: Bomb Explodes on London Tube

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Originally Posted by dc koop View Post
Now you seem to be justifying the reason to allow thousands of refugees into Europe by quoting crime statistics in the UK and the US

Hold on however... be patient... I'm trying to make sense of it
Yeah, I'll leave you to ponder, because it's really tough to work it out. ..... after all, crime by non-muslims doesn't suit your argument.
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Old Sep 21st 2017, 11:00 pm   #77
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Default Re: Bomb Explodes on London Tube

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Yeah, I'll leave you to ponder, because it's really tough to work it out. ..... after all, crime by non-muslims doesn't suit your argument.
Criminal activities by non-Muslims is hardly valid to the discussion in question
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Old Sep 21st 2017, 11:03 pm   #78
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Default Re: Bomb Explodes on London Tube

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Criminal activities by non-Muslims is hardly valid to the discussion in question
How so?
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Old Sep 21st 2017, 11:15 pm   #79
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Default Re: Bomb Explodes on London Tube

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How so?
Because he is very selective in the information he chooses to ignore.
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Old Sep 21st 2017, 11:23 pm   #80
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Default Re: Bomb Explodes on London Tube

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My point is that (i) unlike your reaction in this thread, there was seemingly no hysterical reaction to this terrorist incident by Londoners; and (ii) multicultural places can be and often are wonderful places to be in. Those refugees and migrants that you like to denigrate often bring vitality. It really isn't the doom and gloom picture you like to paint, but is way more nuanced.
I happen to live in southern California in the most multi-cultural part of it, the greater Los Angeles area which is way, way far more multicultural than London will ever be. I also know the benefits of living in such an environment. Migrants are okay if they're willing or able to assimilate and also are accepted by the people of the their new country. There is no problem with Muslims here because America is and always has been a melting pot.

I have to say again for the umpteenth time that the existence of thousands of alienated Muslims of the younger generation across Europe can only mean that while leaders like Merkel make it a policy to accept limitless numbers of Muslim refugees into Europe it's not going down well with a very sizeable majority of the people in these countries and as such means possible trouble on a large scale in the future.
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Old Sep 21st 2017, 11:34 pm   #81
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Default Re: Bomb Explodes on London Tube

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Because he is very selective in the information he chooses to ignore.
Such as you ignoring the point I'm continually making about the existence of so many disaffected Muslims already living in Europe. There are eleven million Muslims living in France. I've seen some of the areas they live in and around Paris, ghettos of soulless high rise low rent flats. They're about as well off as the poorer African-Americans living in housing projects in this part of the world
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Old Sep 21st 2017, 11:43 pm   #82
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Default Re: Bomb Explodes on London Tube

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I happen to live in southern California in the most multi-cultural part of it, the greater Los Angeles area which is way, way far more multicultural than London will ever be. I also know the benefits of living in such an environment. Migrants are okay if they're willing or able to assimilate and also are accepted by the people of the their new country. There is no problem with Muslims here because America is and always has been a melting pot.
And yet in this purported "melting pot", the rate of violent death in LA is way higher than in London. Hmmm...

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I have to say again for the umpteenth time that the existence of thousands of alienated Muslims of the younger generation across Europe can only mean that while leaders like Merkel make it a policy to accept limitless numbers of Muslim refugees into Europe it's not going down well with a very sizeable majority of the people in these countries and as such means possible trouble on a large scale in the future.
I don't doubt that a sizeable number of people paint all muslims with the same brush. I can't see how that's a reasonable rationale for turning our backs on refugees.

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Old Sep 22nd 2017, 12:17 am   #83
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Default Re: Bomb Explodes on London Tube

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Such as you ignoring the point I'm continually making about the existence of so many disaffected Muslims already living in Europe. There are eleven million Muslims living in France. I've seen some of the areas they live in and around Paris, ghettos of soulless high rise low rent flats. They're about as well off as the poorer African-Americans living in housing projects in this part of the world
I'm ignoring nothing because there is nothing to ignore. You just continue to spew out unconnected events and other "evidence" that only works if you already believe that muslims are inherently more likely to commit crimes than others.....

Yes, there are, no doubt, those amongst the muslim population who are "disaffected", just as there are amongst the "native" populations - note the BNP, AfD, FN, etc. So what? However, you claim, with no evidence whatsoever that there are a significant number....... and seem to suggest we should be fearful of them.

You point to acts of violence carried out by muslims, ignoring any carried out by non-muslims or whether they are statistically significant or not.

Then you conflate the North African muslims in France with refugees coming from conflict zones - based on your impression of living conditions in the banlieues which the North Africans share with many other nationalities (there are over a million Portuguese in France and many of them live in these areas too). Yes, they are bleak, just like the housing in many suburbs - take a stroll around some of the big estates in the UK.

There's nothing there, unless you are just looking for an excuse to blame all muslims for the actions of the few - just as I suggested banning all Americans due to the number of murders in the USA. Unfortunately, the difference is that my suggestion will have no consequence, whereas your bile endangers the lives of thousands.
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Old Sep 22nd 2017, 12:26 am   #84
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Default Re: Bomb Explodes on London Tube

Two of those arrested in connection with the bomb have now been released, with no further action to be taken.

One of them is Yahyah Farroukh, the 21 year-old arrested in London and whose photographs and "story" have been plastered all over the tabloids.

I bet there won't be so many column inches dedicated to his release.......
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Old Sep 22nd 2017, 1:23 am   #85
 
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Default Re: Bomb Explodes on London Tube

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Originally Posted by macliam View Post
I'm ignoring nothing because there is nothing to ignore. You just continue to spew out unconnected events and other "evidence" that only works if you already believe that muslims are inherently more likely to commit crimes than others.....

Yes, there are, no doubt, those amongst the muslim population who are "disaffected", just as there are amongst the "native" populations - note the BNP, AfD, FN, etc. So what? However, you claim, with no evidence whatsoever that there are a significant number....... and seem to suggest we should be fearful of them.

You point to acts of violence carried out by muslims, ignoring any carried out by non-muslims or whether they are statistically significant or not.

Then you conflate the North African muslims in France with refugees coming from conflict zones - based on your impression of living conditions in the banlieues which the North Africans share with many other nationalities (there are over a million Portuguese in France and many of them live in these areas too). Yes, they are bleak, just like the housing in many suburbs - take a stroll around some of the big estates in the UK.

There's nothing there, unless you are just looking for an excuse to blame all muslims for the actions of the few - just as I suggested banning all Americans due to the number of murders in the USA. Unfortunately, the difference is that my suggestion will have no consequence, whereas your bile endangers the lives of thousands.
This.
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Old Sep 22nd 2017, 3:28 am   #86
 
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Default Re: Bomb Explodes on London Tube

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Originally Posted by macliam View Post
Two of those arrested in connection with the bomb have now been released, with no further action to be taken.

One of them is Yahyah Farroukh, the 21 year-old arrested in London and whose photographs and "story" have been plastered all over the tabloids.

I bet there won't be so many column inches dedicated to his release.......
And that.
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Old Sep 22nd 2017, 5:34 am   #87
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Default Re: Bomb Explodes on London Tube

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Originally Posted by Giantaxe View Post
And yet in this purported "melting pot", the rate of violent death in LA is way higher than in London. Hmmm...



I don't doubt that a sizeable number of people paint all muslims with the same brush. I can't see how that's a reasonable rationale for turning our backs on refugees.
Of course it is. People here have more or less easy access to guns and the Crips and Bloods for a start have had a turf and drug war going on for decades. Still there are many suburbs and towns around LA that have a lower crime rate than say Wimbledon. Another thing is that deaths in LA are not caused by religious warrior nutters.

The San Bernardino shooting of a couple of years ago was carried out by a US born Muslim and his Pakistani wife who somehow despite a history of religious radicalism in Pakistan was nevertheless given a green card. So much for immigrant vetting

Let's take a hard look at the majority of Syrian refugees. Most probably don't speak English, some may speak French as a second language. They have no job skills that are in demand in the UK except perhaps low paid jobs that require little or no knowledge of the English language and have nothing except the clothes they wear. How long can an already overcrowded little island like Britain accept thousands more refugees? How long can social services and housing authorities cope with the situation? If you were a tax paying resident of the UK would you be willing to pay more in taxes in a system where tax rates are already high? You're not a UK resident of course so how do you know how people in the UK these days feel about the refugee/immigrant issue ?

The fact that the UK is in process of leaving the EU must give you some idea

Last edited by dc koop; Sep 22nd 2017 at 6:02 am.
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Old Sep 22nd 2017, 6:29 am   #88
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Default Re: Bomb Explodes on London Tube

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Originally Posted by macliam View Post
I'm ignoring nothing because there is nothing to ignore. You just continue to spew out unconnected events and other "evidence" that only works if you already believe that muslims are inherently more likely to commit crimes than others.....

Yes, there are, no doubt, those amongst the muslim population who are "disaffected", just as there are amongst the "native" populations - note the BNP, AfD, FN, etc. So what? However, you claim, with no evidence whatsoever that there are a significant number....... and seem to suggest we should be fearful of them.

You point to acts of violence carried out by muslims, ignoring any carried out by non-muslims or whether they are statistically significant or not.

Then you conflate the North African muslims in France with refugees coming from conflict zones - based on your impression of living conditions in the banlieues which the North Africans share with many other nationalities (there are over a million Portuguese in France and many of them live in these areas too). Yes, they are bleak, just like the housing in many suburbs - take a stroll around some of the big estates in the UK.

There's nothing there, unless you are just looking for an excuse to blame all muslims for the actions of the few - just as I suggested banning all Americans due to the number of murders in the USA. Unfortunately, the difference is that my suggestion will have no consequence, whereas your bile endangers the lives of thousands.
You're probably going to call me a racist neo Nazi but I'm going to tell you a story anyway about a couple in France who were friends of mine. For several years they owned a small grocery store in the Paris suburb of Gagny.
The business was successful and they made a nice bit of money over time. They decided to open a bigger store in a neighbouring banlieu. They had it newly constructed and it was about twice as big as the average 711 store here in the US. They had marketing research company do a survey beforehand and the company came back with a glowing report of what they could expect from retail sales based on statistics in that particular area.

Near the store was a very large low income block of flats whose tenants were mostly Algerians and Moroccans. The thieving started almost from day one. I told them to install surveillance cameras but back in the 70s such gadgets were a bit too much for the average business owner of a medium sized food market to be able to afford. I spent some time with them at the store working as an unpaid security guard prowling up and down the aisles several hours a day but the thieving went on and on. In the end the couple ended up at the stage where they were forced to close the store. They could get no co-operation from the local police. They just couldn't be bothered knowing what the neighbourhood was like I suppose. This happened after I had returned to the US.

A few years later my wife and I took a trip to Paris and my wife had her purse stolen on the Paris Metro Underground. The culprits were a couple of Algerian youths. Fortunately our French friend was with us and she called out the thieves and managed to retrieve the purse intact. I suppose the two of them must have heard us speaking English and took us for dumb tourists with no knowledge of French.

Anyway that's my experience of the Algerian species and enough said
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Old Sep 22nd 2017, 6:54 am   #89
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Default Re: Bomb Explodes on London Tube

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Of course it is. People here have more or less easy access to guns and the Crips and Bloods for a start have had a turf and drug war going on for decades. Still there are many suburbs and towns around LA that have a lower crime rate than say Wimbledon. Another thing is that deaths in LA are not caused by religious warrior nutters.

The San Bernardino shooting of a couple of years ago was carried out by a US born Muslim and his Pakistani wife who somehow despite a history of religious radicalism in Pakistan was nevertheless given a green card. So much for immigrant vetting

Let's take a hard look at the majority of Syrian refugees. Most probably don't speak English, some may speak French as a second language. They have no job skills that are in demand in the UK except perhaps low paid jobs that require little or no knowledge of the English language and have nothing except the clothes they wear. How long can an already overcrowded little island like Britain accept thousands more refugees? How long can social services and housing authorities cope with the situation? If you were a tax paying resident of the UK would you be willing to pay more in taxes in a system where tax rates are already high? You're not a UK resident of course so how do you know how people in the UK these days feel about the refugee/immigrant issue ?

The fact that the UK is in process of leaving the EU must give you some idea

Since when does speaking the language count, in the US Spanish is the first language spoken by tens millions and growing.
We all know about how Brits are concerned about immigration and have always done so.
However as a nation we do not let a minority of bigots with more extreme views gain any power or influence.
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Old Sep 22nd 2017, 8:14 am   #90
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Default Re: Bomb Explodes on London Tube

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How long can an already overcrowded little island like Britain accept thousands more refugees? How long can social services and housing authorities cope with the situation? If you were a tax paying resident of the UK would you be willing to pay more in taxes in a system where tax rates are already high?
Blowing smoke again, eh? Conflate refugee with immigrant, conflate individual actions with those of an entire group. "In 2016, there were around 39,000 applications for asylum in the UK. That’s including dependant family members of the main applicant. Those asylum seekers are counted among the estimated 600,000 immigrants to the UK in the 12 months to September 2016, most of whom come to work or study." (source: https://fullfact.org/immigration/uk-refugees/). The same report will show you that, on average, less than 50% of applications are successful.
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You're not a UK resident of course so how do you know how people in the UK these days feel about the refugee/immigrant issue ?
Somewhat hypocritical for someone who posts about how wonderful California is, no? Maybe you should turn your thoughts to North Korea and leave the hard decisions to the big boys who actually know what they're talking about.
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