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Old Sep 16th 2017, 12:32 pm   #31
 
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I was living in the East End during part of this time, difficult to believe that there the would have been apologists, but sure there would have been, you could of course go back further and ask about Battle of Cable Street etc.
Who on BE do you reckon is an apologist for any of these attacks?

Incidentally, there is an Andrew Marr programme on the Beeb at the moment that covers the UK fascist movement, including Cable Street, worth a look. But nothing to do with this sort of thing I don't think, for all your fishing...
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Old Sep 16th 2017, 1:58 pm   #32
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He believes the same as you and I. E.g Our Nige's spurious migrant poster campaign etc influenced the Brexit vote.
Yes, exactly. Not so hidden subtexts as to what the real meaning is. Perhaps not as overt as Trump's migrant-as-terrorist rhetoric and subsequent travel ban.
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Old Sep 16th 2017, 2:27 pm   #33
 
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Yes, exactly. Not so hidden subtexts as to what the real meaning is. Perhaps not as overt as Trump's migrant-as-terrorist rhetoric and subsequent travel ban.
But pretty damn close.
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Old Sep 16th 2017, 5:28 pm   #34
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Default Re: Bomb Explodes on London Tube

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I was living in the East End during part of this time, difficult to believe that there the would have been apologists, but sure there would have been, you could of course go back further and ask about Battle of Cable Street etc.
Aye, well I was living in London through the 80s and was within 500 yards of the Harrods bomb - yet when I went to certain pubs in Hammersmith and Kilburn there were collections "for the cause" and guys selling "An Phoblacht". It's fair to say that there was sympathy, not for the actions, but for the cause, amongst those who frequented those places. There was less sympathy in the community as a whole, but like now, it's complicated.....

At that time, the media focused on the violence and generally stayed away from the politics - the IRA were seen as a civil issue. In general, there was some friction (there always was) but I don't recall being picked on for being Irish. What's different now is a racist/anti-immigrant context, a degree of islamophobia and 24-hour media which bangs on about "Islamic Terrorism".
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Old Sep 17th 2017, 6:08 am   #35
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Default Re: Bomb Explodes on London Tube

Nobody listened to Enoch Powell did they? Dismissed as a bigot and a racist. and yes the " streets of London have run with blood"
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Old Sep 17th 2017, 7:00 am   #36
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Nobody listened to Enoch Powell did they? Dismissed as a bigot and a racist. and yes the " streets of London have run with blood"
Thats because as an intelligent man he needed to have kept that speech for Parliament, and not for the man in the street. He was right in that the question of different races integrating needed to be addressed.Wrong in the way he did it.
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Old Sep 17th 2017, 7:06 am   #37
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Aye, well I was living in London through the 80s and was within 500 yards of the Harrods bomb - yet when I went to certain pubs in Hammersmith and Kilburn there were collections "for the cause" and guys selling "An Phoblacht". It's fair to say that there was sympathy, not for the actions, but for the cause, amongst those who frequented those places. There was less sympathy in the community as a whole, but like now, it's complicated.....

At that time, the media focused on the violence and generally stayed away from the politics - the IRA were seen as a civil issue. In general, there was some friction (there always was) but I don't recall being picked on for being Irish. What's different now is a racist/anti-immigrant context, a degree of islamophobia and 24-hour media which bangs on about "Islamic Terrorism".
I was in Manchester during the bombing there. Never a question of anti Irish feeling . It was always about extremist views.and actions This deliberate branding of Muslims as terrorists is so close to the Nazi's brainwashing of the German people ,its frightening. Almost like someone has their guide book.
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Old Sep 17th 2017, 10:28 am   #38
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Nobody listened to Enoch Powell did they? Dismissed as a bigot and a racist. and yes the " streets of London have run with blood"
Have they? have they really? - or is this another attempt to vindicate a man whose intellect was corrupted by his patronising view of British superiority, who had close contacts with overtly racist organizations and who sought to use his oratory in a similar way to Mosley? The speech was roundly condemned by his shadow cabinet colleagues at the time and no amount of revisionism will make it truer or less inflammatory than it was.
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Old Sep 17th 2017, 1:49 pm   #39
 
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Default Re: Bomb Explodes on London Tube

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Nobody listened to Enoch Powell did they? Dismissed as a bigot and a racist. and yes the " streets of London have run with blood"
Oh for goodness sake. A less valid connection than this from Powell's views to these attacks would be hard to imagine. The recent attacks in London have nothing at all to do with what Powell was talking about, unless you want to reduce both Powell's speech and these attacks around the world to "foreigners bad". Or "wide-grinning piccaninnies," as Powell called the children of the Commonwealth citizens to whom he was referring..

You should actually read the speech in question:

Enoch Powell's 'Rivers of Blood' speech - Telegraph

And what you will find when you read it has nothing to do with lunatic acts of religious-inspired violence fuelled by ignorant and inhuman fanaticism and the depredations inflicted on one part of the world by another over the course of the last century. But it will look very simlar to the garbage spouted by Farage, his right-wing buddies in various countries, the tabloid press, and a handful of people on BE under the guise of the leave EU campaign. That has always been a cheap and easy way to get people worked up - still being used, people still falling for it. Apparently.
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Old Sep 17th 2017, 2:00 pm   #40
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Oh for goodness sake. A less valid connection than this from Powell's views to these attacks would be hard to imagine. The recent attacks in London have nothing at all to do with what Powell was talking about, unless you want to reduce both Powell's speech and these attacks around the world to "foreigners bad". Or "wide-grinning piccaninnies," as Powell called the children of the Commonwealth citizens to whom he was referring..

You should actually read the speech in question:

Enoch Powell's 'Rivers of Blood' speech - Telegraph

And what you will find when you read it has nothing to do with lunatic acts of religious-inspired violence fuelled by ignorant and inhuman fanaticism and the depredations inflicted on one part of the world by another over the course of the last century. But it will look very simlar to the garbage spouted by Farage, his right-wing buddies in various countries, the tabloid press, and a handful of people on BE under the guise of the leave EU campaign. That has always been a cheap and easy way to get people worked up - still being used, people still falling for it. Apparently.
How are you with criminalising the LGBTQI community?
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Old Sep 17th 2017, 2:07 pm   #41
 
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How are you with criminalising the LGBTQI community?
Sorry, not playing. You need to work on being less transparent.
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Old Sep 17th 2017, 2:16 pm   #42
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But it will look very similar to the garbage spouted by Farage, his right-wing buddies in various countries, the tabloid press, and a handful of people on BE under the guise of the leave EU campaign. That has always been a cheap and easy way to get people worked up - still being used, people still falling for it. Apparently.
Yes.
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Old Sep 17th 2017, 2:43 pm   #43
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You should actually read the speech in question:

Enoch Powell's 'Rivers of Blood' speech - Telegraph
.
This speech is so appropriate to re-read now as a reminder of those attitudes then, and the shameful reemergence now in many quarters.
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Old Sep 17th 2017, 8:22 pm   #44
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Sorry, not playing. You need to work on being less transparent.
A worth sacrifice no doubt.
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Old Sep 18th 2017, 5:28 am   #45
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Default Re: Bomb Explodes on London Tube

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Oh for goodness sake. A less valid connection than this from Powell's views to these attacks would be hard to imagine. The recent attacks in London have nothing at all to do with what Powell was talking about, unless you want to reduce both Powell's speech and these attacks around the world to "foreigners bad". Or "wide-grinning piccaninnies," as Powell called the children of the Commonwealth citizens to whom he was referring..

You should actually read the speech in question:

Enoch Powell's 'Rivers of Blood' speech - Telegraph

And what you will find when you read it has nothing to do with lunatic acts of religious-inspired violence fuelled by ignorant and inhuman fanaticism and the depredations inflicted on one part of the world by another over the course of the last century. But it will look very simlar to the garbage spouted by Farage, his right-wing buddies in various countries, the tabloid press, and a handful of people on BE under the guise of the leave EU campaign. That has always been a cheap and easy way to get people worked up - still being used, people still falling for it. Apparently.
No connection? Well the people driving vans and trucks into crowds of people aren't C of E lily white Anglo-Saxons are they ?
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