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Why move ... all that stress

Why move ... all that stress

Old Feb 23rd 2018, 8:45 am
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Default Re: Why move ... all that stress

Originally Posted by Bridie55
Exactly what I was saying but I've given up on replying as it obviously upsets some of the forum old guard.
This site is called "British Expats" -

Expats short for Expatriates -

Definition -

1A. person who lives outside their native country.
So it's hardly surprising that your OP fell on stony ground - but then you already knew that.
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Old Feb 23rd 2018, 8:53 am
  #32  
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Default Re: Why move ... all that stress

Originally Posted by Expatrick
This site is called "British Expats" -

Expats short for Expatriates -

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So it's hardly surprising that your OP fell on stony ground - but then you already knew that.
Oh give it a rest!
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Old Feb 23rd 2018, 9:19 am
  #33  
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Default Re: Why move ... all that stress

Originally Posted by Leper
Of course, they are entitled to spend their money as they please, but if you are going to spend less than 6 months per year in the sun, why tie yourself down? Renting makes more sense.
I don't disagree with most of what you say and in fact said as much in previous comments, i.e. down to personal choice, horses for courses etc. However you are speaking with the benefit of hindsight re the 2008 crash which affected and still does Spanish property prices. Many may well have bought pre 2008 in the believe property was a reasonable investment for their money and provide them with a holiday home as well? Some may have bought planning to make their Spanish home their full time home but circumstances have changed and they simply continue to use it as an holiday home. Ignoring personal individual circumstances let's look at some things that have changed for those that bought pre crash. In 2012 the government removed the right of those who had up to date NI record the right to free health care for 18 months to 2 years for those under state pension age, many women have also been hit with a 6 year increase in state pension age which is an obvious income issue but may also have a huge knock on affect re free health care in Spain dependant on a partners age. Then we have the impending Brexit and who knows what that will eventually bring? The whole situation changed back in 2008 so many people including myself have had to tear up what we had planned when we bought, not necessarily in haste or taking per say what estate agents told you. Many had done their homework formulated a plan for retirement but because of circumstances outside of their control have had to to deal with these issues as best they can and make the most of what they have. So as I said previously it is down to horses for courses driven by personal circumstances, no two people have the same set of circumstances. I say live and let live how people choose to enjoy their property in Spain is down to them.
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Old Feb 23rd 2018, 9:49 am
  #34  
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Default Re: Why move ... all that stress

Originally Posted by Rosemary
Here we go again. It does not matter who does what provided that they are living their life how they want to. Dipping into Spain or living here permanently is personal choice. Where any of us choose to live in Spain is again personal choice. No one person should try to ram their choice down the throats of others.

Full time or part time does not matter one jot because the important thing is living our lives in the manner that we wish.

I live in a small Spanish town, I know no other English people and only meet and speak with other Brits once a year during a weeks holiday. This is my choice, it suits me fine and I do not really care what choices other people make provided that they have chosen what suits them and that they are happy and content.

Rosemary

I think that is a stunning post - says it all.
Why should anyone have to justify to a third person "why" they decided to do anything at all, unless their decision happens to affect that third person?
Live your own life and let other people get on with living theirs, has always been my motto.
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Old Feb 23rd 2018, 10:38 am
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Default Re: Why move ... all that stress

Moses, I lived in the republica homelands for twelve years I buried myself deep in their culture, learned the language, supported the cause, even represented them in Brussels and personally took a deputation to the United nations in New York in 2008. I spoke at many republican meetings ...but when push comes to shove I was not Catalan. As I said, get a way from the coast and you will see the people for who they are. The majority of the people living on the coast do rely on tourists, but they also bitch about them as they walk away ...I could hear it as did my Catalan friends, the British are oblivious as they've learned a bit of Spanish to communicate.

I say, on my visits to other parts, I wasn't on holiday but visiting family in the andaluce, visiting other separatist organisations in the basque or galician towns. as well as unpleasant times in the outer ring of towns around Madrid such as Salamanca and Valladolid (they really hate the catalans and anyone using catalan language as I found out personally)

I can tell you from personal experience (i only moved back 2 months ago), Catalonia right now is not a good place to go, unless you are super wealthy and can isolate yourself from what is happening on the streets. However, the majority of people are not that rich and will meet strong opposition particularly if they are English (the Scottish wanted a referendum vote and got it - thus the Catalans align themselves with that, you will also see support for the IRA in small rural villages in the casals amongst the young, because they fought for "freedom" and feel justified in supporting terror groups such as Terra Lluira).

You say it's not region specific, but yes it is. The Catalans are polarized right now, you are either with them or against them, you can't abstain. I have witnessed at my school, children beating up other children because their parents didn't vote for independence. Children who used to play together.

Don't wash this away with the racism is everywhere rhetoric, it's a very real thing in Catalonia ...come inland from Barcelona (who doesn't want independence) and you will see the real anger of the Catalans, spewing hatred on a scale I've never seen anywhere else in the world.

Catalonia from Girona, Vic, Llieda through my town Igualada, down to the outskirts of Valencia is extreme independance, and nothing will change their minds. However Barcelona and Tarragona are they other way (due to the many rich Spanish) ..there's no middle ground ..you can't sit down for a coffee without hearing about independence, and god forbid you speak to them in Catalan, from then on you're drawn into whatever argument is on today's menu.

I used to joke (when I first arrived), "When you win independence, who will you hate then?" Sadly it's no longer a joke and the hatred is fuelling their fires.

Don't believe the nonsense that Mathew Tree spits out weekly on Catalan TV, he's their puppet, he's realised that if he keeps saying nice things he's getting paid well ..the truth is very different ..and as a peaceful man I want no part of it.

If you don't understand what the argument is about, it's simple ...money! at first they said it's their language, but had to drop that when they realised it's the most supported minority language in Europe. Then they said it's culture, but again it has cultural events every day of the year in practically every comarca. So they dropped that. Their real argument is that central government is spending "catalan" money on supporting Andalusia, galicia, navarra and other poor regions .... you know the same way as every country in Europe does ..including England.

So, yes I will defend my previous statement, Catalonia right now is not a place to spend time ..visit Sagrada Familiar it's epic, see the millionaires in Platja D-Oro, have a laugh in Benidorm (but don't get arrested), but stay the hell away from the rural side, it's not a place to leave you with beautiful images of Spain and don't live there ....not if you want a peaceful life.
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Old Feb 23rd 2018, 10:58 am
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Default Re: Why move ... all that stress

Originally Posted by Mark_Stewart
Moses, I lived in the republica homelands for twelve years I buried myself deep in their culture, learned the language, supported the cause, even represented them in Brussels and personally took a deputation to the United nations in New York in 2008. I spoke at many republican meetings ...but when push comes to shove I was not Catalan. As I said, get a way from the coast and you will see the people for who they are. The majority of the people living on the coast do rely on tourists, but they also bitch about them as they walk away ...I could hear it as did my Catalan friends, the British are oblivious as they've learned a bit of Spanish to communicate.

I say, on my visits to other parts, I wasn't on holiday but visiting family in the andaluce, visiting other separatist organisations in the basque or galician towns. as well as unpleasant times in the outer ring of towns around Madrid such as Salamanca and Valladolid (they really hate the catalans and anyone using catalan language as I found out personally)

I can tell you from personal experience (i only moved back 2 months ago), Catalonia right now is not a good place to go, unless you are super wealthy and can isolate yourself from what is happening on the streets. However, the majority of people are not that rich and will meet strong opposition particularly if they are English (the Scottish wanted a referendum vote and got it - thus the Catalans align themselves with that, you will also see support for the IRA in small rural villages in the casals amongst the young, because they fought for "freedom" and feel justified in supporting terror groups such as Terra Lluira).

You say it's not region specific, but yes it is. The Catalans are polarized right now, you are either with them or against them, you can't abstain. I have witnessed at my school, children beating up other children because their parents didn't vote for independence. Children who used to play together.

Don't wash this away with the racism is everywhere rhetoric, it's a very real thing in Catalonia ...come inland from Barcelona (who doesn't want independence) and you will see the real anger of the Catalans, spewing hatred on a scale I've never seen anywhere else in the world.

Catalonia from Girona, Vic, Llieda through my town Igualada, down to the outskirts of Valencia is extreme independance, and nothing will change their minds. However Barcelona and Tarragona are they other way (due to the many rich Spanish) ..there's no middle ground ..you can't sit down for a coffee without hearing about independence, and god forbid you speak to them in Catalan, from then on you're drawn into whatever argument is on today's menu.

I used to joke (when I first arrived), "When you win independence, who will you hate then?" Sadly it's no longer a joke and the hatred is fuelling their fires.

Don't believe the nonsense that Mathew Tree spits out weekly on Catalan TV, he's their puppet, he's realised that if he keeps saying nice things he's getting paid well ..the truth is very different ..and as a peaceful man I want no part of it.

If you don't understand what the argument is about, it's simple ...money! at first they said it's their language, but had to drop that when they realised it's the most supported minority language in Europe. Then they said it's culture, but again it has cultural events every day of the year in practically every comarca. So they dropped that. Their real argument is that central government is spending "catalan" money on supporting Andalusia, galicia, navarra and other poor regions .... you know the same way as every country in Europe does ..including England.

So, yes I will defend my previous statement, Catalonia right now is not a place to spend time ..visit Sagrada Familiar it's epic, see the millionaires in Platja D-Oro, have a laugh in Benidorm (but don't get arrested), but stay the hell away from the rural side, it's not a place to leave you with beautiful images of Spain and don't live there ....not if you want a peaceful life.
Again it's nothing unique and try setting up a business next to a Spanish person in Granada. You'll quickly find that they are not so welcoming either. Of course there are problems right now and we also own property in the region and I have friends there, so I'm not unaware of the situation. Go to Germany and all you will hear is people complaining about migrants. In the UK it's Brexit. In Italy it's the government. Of course you can move to your gated community in Benidorm and think you are in safety, but the problems still exist. You could be anywhere in the world and you'll find problems with religion, politics etc.


We were stuck on motorway near Tarragona while students were protesting. There were no problems and I even spoke to many in English.
As said, go to Marbella and you'll find many locals bitch about foreigners. They are pushing prices up, we can no longer afford to live here.
Even in San Sebastian there were anti tourism protests.

Last edited by Moses2013; Feb 23rd 2018 at 11:02 am.
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Old Feb 23rd 2018, 11:13 am
  #37  
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Default Re: Why move ... all that stress

"We were stuck on motorway near Tarragona while students were protesting. There were no problems and I even spoke to many in English."

I dare you to disagree with them ... plus Tarragona is unionist territory anyway, try driving through lleida or Vic during a protest far more aggressive.

I reiterate ..right now it's not a good place to be, over 1000 major international investors have pulled out of the region leaving the standing government in arrears unable to pay any state workers, they proclaimed they were the richest autonomy and demanded that their tax Euros were to be spent only on Catalans. Now, if this becomes the Spanish Government's next move, I wouldn't be surprised if the Spanish demanded no Spanish Euros go to Catalonia ...and they would be in their rights to do so. However when the calculations were done some time in December by the Catalan financial advisors (not state) , it forecast that Catalonia would be in such a huge deficit that taxes would rise 5-10%.
I always remember the saying "be careful what you wish for, because you just might get it"

Imagine the streets then?
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Old Feb 23rd 2018, 12:15 pm
  #38  
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Default Re: Why move ... all that stress

Originally Posted by Mark_Stewart
"We were stuck on motorway near Tarragona while students were protesting. There were no problems and I even spoke to many in English."

I dare you to disagree with them ... plus Tarragona is unionist territory anyway, try driving through lleida or Vic during a protest far more aggressive.

I reiterate ..right now it's not a good place to be, over 1000 major international investors have pulled out of the region leaving the standing government in arrears unable to pay any state workers, they proclaimed they were the richest autonomy and demanded that their tax Euros were to be spent only on Catalans. Now, if this becomes the Spanish Government's next move, I wouldn't be surprised if the Spanish demanded no Spanish Euros go to Catalonia ...and they would be in their rights to do so. However when the calculations were done some time in December by the Catalan financial advisors (not state) , it forecast that Catalonia would be in such a huge deficit that taxes would rise 5-10%.
I always remember the saying "be careful what you wish for, because you just might get it"

Imagine the streets then?
Well, Tarragona was just for a day trip. When you say investors leaving, that's pretty much how Spain was for the past 10 years (No jobs). I never disagreed with anyone, but I did have an opinion and I accept I'll always be a foreigner. As I'm living in the Rep of Ireland, they probably listen more and are interested to hear about the history here. Sure, you'll find aggressive people too, but that's no different when Real Madrid are playing Atletico. At the end of the day, Spain (our world) has a lot more problems than politics & money. A lot of Spain will be uninhabitable anyway and some regions are already becoming like deserts, so that seems like a bigger problem to me. Probably a good idea to keep the Irish home and enjoy a bit of rain after a long summer evening:-)

Last edited by Moses2013; Feb 23rd 2018 at 12:26 pm.
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Old Feb 23rd 2018, 12:37 pm
  #39  
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Default Re: Why move ... all that stress

Although not the same scale of Country or population, I recognise all the issues Mark has raised.You see, I was brought up in the Welsh mining valleys and spoke Welsh, was taught everything in Welsh and even bought my sweets in Welsh. I sometimes catch myself thinking in Welsh, to this day! I didn't stay there all my life, because I made a free choice to leave it, and ALL the similar aspects Mark highlighted. Welsh dislike the English and vice versa,(really) but South Wales also dislike North Wales. (!!) Welsh are anti Monarchy in general, and the past oppression in the Coalfields make them militant as hell.

So its simple. If I don't ask anybody to help or fund me in my life, they have no right to try and ram ANYTHING down my throat. I will paddle my own canoe and take the cream and the sh** as it comes.

Just make an informed choice and get on with it, eh? And then mind your business is best.

Lifes too short, REALLY!
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Old Feb 23rd 2018, 12:42 pm
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Default Re: Why move ... all that stress

Originally Posted by Bridie55
Oh give it a rest!
And thats how you deal with anothers opinion then, is it?
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Old Feb 23rd 2018, 12:47 pm
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Default Re: Why move ... all that stress

Originally Posted by lurchio
Although not the same scale of Country or population, I recognise all the issues Mark has raised.You see, I was brought up in the Welsh mining valleys and spoke Welsh, was taught everything in Welsh and even bought my sweets in Welsh. I sometimes catch myself thinking in Welsh, to this day! I didn't stay there all my life, because I made a free choice to leave it, and ALL the similar aspects Mark highlighted. Welsh dislike the English and vice versa,(really) but South Wales also dislike North Wales. (!!) Welsh are anti Monarchy in general, and the past oppression in the Coalfields make them militant as hell.

So its simple. If I don't ask anybody to help or fund me in my life, they have no right to try and ram ANYTHING down my throat. I will paddle my own canoe and take the cream and the sh** as it comes.

Just make an informed choice and get on with it, eh? And then mind your business is best.

Lifes too short, REALLY!
That's exactly my point. The Spanish hate Spanish, Liverpool fans hate Manchester United fans. We in Ireland also speak Gaelic and apparently hate the English. The English hate Germans etc. You can try and find faults all your life by stereotyping, but if you look further than that, life is not always as bad as you make it. Believe it or not, right now an Irish person is next to an English person in a pub, while a German is serving Irish beer.
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Old Feb 23rd 2018, 1:04 pm
  #42  
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Default Re: Why move ... all that stress

Originally Posted by lurchio
And thats how you deal with anothers opinion then, is it?
What he said wasn't an opinion. Wow some of you really look for confrontations. Very boring when there is such an interesting thread going on about Catalunya.
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Old Feb 23rd 2018, 2:28 pm
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Default Re: Why move ... all that stress

Originally Posted by lurchio

Just make an informed choice and get on with it, eh? And then mind your business is best.

Lifes too short, REALLY!
Exactly.
Mind you dont mention Lancastrians from the wrong side of the Pennines!

Last edited by Rosemary; Feb 23rd 2018 at 2:30 pm.
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Old Feb 23rd 2018, 6:05 pm
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Default Re: Why move ... all that stress

Originally Posted by Bridie55
I read posts on this site daily. We all want our dream life in the sun but..is selling up and moving worth It?? I love Spain but would I chuck everything in UK in for a bit of sea sun and nice life...a big fat NO. It's such an uneasy world so many ex pats move back 'home' when their partners die or they get ill. Just rent for less than 90 days. Enjoy the weather but beware Spain is not easy to make it your home and I spend 5 months here and love it.
Bridie55 starts by asking a question then gives her point of view and promptly gets attacked!
What no points of view allowed if it goes against your own experience? Can people not just agree to differ? Seems like an over reaction to me.

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Old Feb 23rd 2018, 6:21 pm
  #45  
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Default Re: Why move ... all that stress

Originally Posted by bobd22
Exactly.
Mind you dont mention Lancastrians from the wrong side of the Pennines!
Or the Cornish from the wrong side of the Tamar!
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