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moving to spain!!!!

moving to spain!!!!

Old Sep 9th 2012, 8:27 pm
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Default moving to spain!!!!

hi all newbie here.......my hubby and I are looking into moving to spain next year,we are buying pub/cafe or letting and also apartment.Looking at the Torrevejca (spelt wrong prob)area as it seems to be what we re interested in,does this have big expat community?any thoughts on area?all help appreciated thanks x
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Old Sep 9th 2012, 9:54 pm
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Default Re: moving to spain!!!!

Read the many previous posts advising not to go to Spain seeking paid employment and especially those advising not to take on the rent of a pub.
Sorry, for being so terse I'm just blue in the face creating posts advising people to look again befoe they leap.
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Old Sep 9th 2012, 10:51 pm
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Default Re: moving to spain!!!!

Thanks for taking time to reply all be it not what was wanting to hear lol, guess leap of faith is right phrase in our situation, we have some friends doing same thing who seem to be doing well, but hey we ll see
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Old Sep 9th 2012, 10:58 pm
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Default Re: moving to spain!!!!

the holiday season is drawing to a close, so 6 months almost no customers, hope your savings are good

45-50% unemployment in many parts of Spain and do you think they havent considered running a bar.

how to become a millionaire in Spain - come with 2 million and take on a bar.
good luck
I'm out
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Old Sep 10th 2012, 12:23 am
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Default Re: moving to spain!!!!

Originally Posted by donnah34
Thanks for taking time to reply all be it not what was wanting to hear lol, guess leap of faith is right phrase in our situation, we have some friends doing same thing who seem to be doing well, but hey we ll see
It may not be what you want to hear but it's sadly very true!

Now is just about the worst time possible to consider owning/renting or running a bar, even the Spanish families are finding it very difficult and many of their bars are having to close from lack of customers.

Think about it....there is mass unemployment here, we are in the fourth year of recession with no light so far at the end of the tunnel.
People are struggling just to feed their family and pay mortgages and utility bills, they don't have money left over to spend in bars the way they used to do!

I know people wishing to move here don't want to hear it, but the only people doing OK at the moment are those not dependent on finding work who have a pension or private income....even then if the exchange rate drops.......
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Old Sep 12th 2012, 8:47 pm
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Default Re: moving to spain!!!!

I owned a bar in Benidorm for five years. We are now back in the UK and are still paying for it. It has set us back 15 years. (SNIP) This is not the time to be moving to Spain especially to open a bar. It really is throwing money down the drain. Dont do it. It will take years for Spain to turn around.

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Old Sep 13th 2012, 5:55 am
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Default Re: moving to spain!!!!

I have been disengenous to Donnah in my above post and I am sorry for that. Still though, I advise against her plan. If you want the plan to work hundreds of things would have to go right simultaneously. The Bar-Renters Handbook of the Costas (dreamed up by me and an extract below) will inform you that for any one thing to go right you would need an audience with deity beforehand and with the minimum of your soul being sold.

Let's say you acquire a decent bar/restaurant and you have built up a decent trade and things are getting better and better; you're even wondering why you hadn't made the move years sooner. Your rent will increase drastically and suddenly you are working harder and harder just to make the rent. The owner probably doesn't care. You pack it in and return to the UK and he (usually a he) will shove some relative into the pub and carry on where you left off while waiting for another dreamer from the UK. But, you might bring your know-how to a different rented premises just up the road, but the same thing will happen again.

You might think that the recession in Spain will drive prices down. Forget it, nothing is the same in Spain as in the rest of the EU. Spanish property owners think they can incrementally increase rent every three months.

Last edited by Leper; Sep 13th 2012 at 6:01 am.
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Old Sep 13th 2012, 6:07 am
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Default Re: moving to spain!!!!

Originally Posted by Leper
I have been disengenous to Donnah in my above post and I am sorry for that. Still though, I advise against her plan. If you want the plan to work hundreds of things would have to go right simultaneously. The Bar-Renters Handbook of the Costas (dreamed up by me and an extract below) will inform you that for any one thing to go right you would need an audience with deity beforehand and with the minimum of your soul being sold.

Let's say you acquire a decent bar/restaurant and you have built up a decent trade and things are getting better and better; you're even wondering why you hadn't made the move years sooner. Your rent will increase drastically and suddenly you are working harder and harder just to make the rent. The owner probably doesn't care. You pack it in and return to the UK and he (usually a he) will shove some relative into the pub and carry on where you left off while waiting for another dreamer from the UK. But, you might bring your know-how to a different rented premises just up the road, but the same thing will happen again.

You might think that the recession in Spain will drive prices down. Forget it, nothing is the same in Spain as in the rest of the EU. Spanish property owners think they can incrementally increase rent every three months.
so what you are saying is......
There is always another mug around the corner.


one lesson to be learnt must be to be a property owner not a tenant
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Old Sep 13th 2012, 6:48 am
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Default Re: moving to spain!!!!

Originally Posted by Leper
I have been disengenous to Donnah in my above post and I am sorry for that. Still though, I advise against her plan. If you want the plan to work hundreds of things would have to go right simultaneously. The Bar-Renters Handbook of the Costas (dreamed up by me and an extract below) will inform you that for any one thing to go right you would need an audience with deity beforehand and with the minimum of your soul being sold.

Let's say you acquire a decent bar/restaurant and you have built up a decent trade and things are getting better and better; you're even wondering why you hadn't made the move years sooner. Your rent will increase drastically and suddenly you are working harder and harder just to make the rent. The owner probably doesn't care. You pack it in and return to the UK and he (usually a he) will shove some relative into the pub and carry on where you left off while waiting for another dreamer from the UK. But, you might bring your know-how to a different rented premises just up the road, but the same thing will happen again.
You might think that the recession in Spain will drive prices down. Forget it, nothing is the same in Spain as in the rest of the EU. Spanish property owners think they can incrementally increase rent every three months.
That is not the case, if at the initial signing of the contract stage rent rises are stipulated at an achievable rate and the length of time established the owner cannot just increase the rent drastically.

Also the "drastic rent rise" ranks alongside "missing the children/grandchildren" excuse when people fail in business and don't want to lose face by admitting that it was a mistake in the first place to open a bar.

A family friend owns a local where a local restaurant where the Brit owner has moved around the corner but his staff have stayed on running the place, his excuse is that the owner of the local told him that the building had been sold, and that it was a way of getting him out and in his words it is "mutiny" by the staff.

Totally not true, he was in so deep with suppliers and owed rent but will not admit it.

So all the stories about landlords putting up rent and blaming them on nearly every business failure should be taken with more than a pinch of salt.

Last edited by me me; Sep 13th 2012 at 6:51 am.
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Old Sep 13th 2012, 7:08 am
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Default Re: moving to spain!!!!

Originally Posted by me me
That is not the case, if at the initial signing of the contract stage rent rises are stipulated at an achievable rate and the length of time established the owner cannot just increase the rent drastically.

Also the "drastic rent rise" ranks alongside "missing the children/grandchildren" excuse when people fail in business and don't want to lose face by admitting that it was a mistake in the first place to open a bar.

A family friend owns a local where a local restaurant where the Brit owner has moved around the corner but his staff have stayed on running the place, his excuse is that the owner of the local told him that the building had been sold, and that it was a way of getting him out and in his words it is "mutiny" by the staff.

Totally not true, he was in so deep with suppliers and owed rent but will not admit it.

So all the stories about landlords putting up rent and blaming them on nearly every business failure should be taken with more than a pinch of salt.

as you say 'IF at the initial signing of the contract stage rent rises are stipulated at an achievable rate and the length of time established the owner cannot just increase the rent drastically.'

it's a big IF

some people don't for some unknown reason have this clause

I do know people who have genuinely had this happen to them - they haven't gone back or closed their businesses - but have moved to different & sometimes even better premises for less rent

one particular landlord around here now has lots of empty units because he wanted unreasonable rent increases - whereas another has in some cases agreed to lower rents for a fixed period so has all his units let

I'm not saying it isn't often used as an excuse for leaving - just that it does sometimes happen
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Old Sep 13th 2012, 7:24 am
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Default Re: moving to spain!!!!

even in that Shangri-La called the UK there have been rent increase problems.

although stipulated in the lease, many contracts were/are "upward rent review". This allowed many landlords to demand 20, 30, 40, or even more % increase in the rent - even in times when the rents were falling.
this was so they could keep the same income as they had when all their shops etc were all occupied, just spread it across fewer and fewer payers.

The UK leases require rent payment on quarter days - look at all the well known businesses that have failed and they made the announcement the day before a quarter day.

that is why there is the sad sight of rows of shops empty. all the same landlord, who has probably been foreclosed by the bank because his borrowings were supposed to be covered by the rents.
one massive example of this was HMV.

this is all self destroying but when in a hole - stop digging.
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Old Sep 13th 2012, 8:27 am
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Default Re: moving to spain!!!!

Originally Posted by lynnxa
as you say 'IF at the initial signing of the contract stage rent rises are stipulated at an achievable rate and the length of time established the owner cannot just increase the rent drastically.'

it's a big IF

some people don't for some unknown reason have this clause
I do know people who have genuinely had this happen to them - they haven't gone back or closed their businesses - but have moved to different & sometimes even better premises for less rent

one particular landlord around here now has lots of empty units because he wanted unreasonable rent increases - whereas another has in some cases agreed to lower rents for a fixed period so has all his units let

I'm not saying it isn't often used as an excuse for leaving - just that it does sometimes happen
The difference between a person who can make a go of being self employed and one who should stick to being salaried is based on more than having a desire/dream and a few bob to invest.

The main requirement is forward thinking and business savvy.

A "natural" would have thought of the "what if it doesn't work the way I planned" senario and also, the "what if it does work".

As a "natural" would usually be on the "what if it does work" side of the coin, they will make sure that they will be able to continue to trade, without a greedy landlord being able to step in and take advantage.

Although I am not a business minded person, I married a man that is and luckily our children have inherited his drive and business "cunning".

That is why opening a business is not for everyone, and is a mistake for many, because even with all the trump cards in their favour, they have not got the business acumen to carry it off.
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Old Sep 13th 2012, 11:47 am
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Default Re: moving to spain!!!!

Originally Posted by me me
The difference between a person who can make a go of being self employed and one who should stick to being salaried is based on more than having a desire/dream and a few bob to invest.

The main requirement is forward thinking and business savvy.

A "natural" would have thought of the "what if it doesn't work the way I planned" senario and also, the "what if it does work".

As a "natural" would usually be on the "what if it does work" side of the coin, they will make sure that they will be able to continue to trade, without a greedy landlord being able to step in and take advantage.

Although I am not a business minded person, I married a man that is and luckily our children have inherited his drive and business "cunning".

That is why opening a business is not for everyone, and is a mistake for many, because even with all the trump cards in their favour, they have not got the business acumen to carry it off.
agreed - & those who don't have such a clause as we discussed probably shouldn't have started a business in the first place.......
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Old Sep 13th 2012, 3:24 pm
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Default Re: moving to spain!!!!

If what I said above is untrue. Why are there so many bar-restaurants available for rent at the moment on the Costas?

Believe me, I wish I was not telling the truth.
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Old Sep 13th 2012, 3:32 pm
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Default Re: moving to spain!!!!

Originally Posted by Leper
If what I said above is untrue. Why are there so many bar-restaurants available for rent at the moment on the Costas?

Believe me, I wish I was not telling the truth.
remember Salou about 25 years ago, in late Sept early Oct right at the end of the season, many of the bars had For Sale signs up - all expats offering roast beef and yorkshires every day.

half the UK must be made up with people who gave it a try and failed.
and still they keep coming on here with this new brilliant idea no one has thought of - opening a bar.
and they have great experience - pulled a few pints and birds at uni.
what a waste of a good degree.
if thats the best uni's can push out into the world then perhaps they should be giving tuition fees back - the kids havent learnt anything
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