Dick Dasterdly

Based on exit poles it looks like a real cliff hanger with PP plus Ciudadanos together probably having a similar number of seats as the two Left parties together, though various combinations are possible.

Podemos seem to have done better than recently expected and Ciudadanos not so well as expected.

Fredbargate

It's a little difficult to define what was expected when the government controls ( gags ) the press

amideislas

We shall see, but I'm a bit surprised that PP has done as well as it has.

Voters generally follow whatever propaganda is bestowed on them for the day. And there's plenty. As we all know, Spain, despite having overcome near-bankruptcy, still has the 2nd highest unemployment, but also has the highest growth in the Eurozone.

But not unlike Miliband's campaign earlier this year, I'm a bit relieved to see the facts speak for themselves. Spain has demonstrably improved significantly under PP's watch.

Now, no flaming please, because I have little faith in Spanish politicians of any party (because I know how it actually works here, and it's not pretty), but like the UK elections, you just can't dismiss reality, and that's precisely why Miliband lost so miserably.

It's still far from perfect, but considering where it was, you can't expect miracles. But most voters do... Yet again, I'm impressed that Spanish voters don't seem to be as daft as I thought. The alternatives would certainly reverse any progress made.

The PP won't likely have a clear majority, so forming a government is going to be difficult. We shall see.

Red Eric

Dick Dasterdly

Enjoy.

Dick Dasterdly

At the end of the day the PP has still lost a significant amount of support.
I sincerely hope that whoever takes over, Rajoy is no longer in charge.

Whilst I realise some of his policies relating to austerity etc were pretty much essential, I cannot condone and would definitely draw the line at some of his other draconian dictatorial measures even if it meant a left wing govt taking over.
Apart from the clear restriction on free speech consider just one aspect only of the gagging laws.
It is illegal to photo, film or publicly criticise the police.
Now the Spanish police already have a well earned reputation for acting like thugs at the drop of a hat.
The present law which in any event makes it almost impossible to protest or form a demonstration of any significance and the fact that whatever punitive measures the police decide to take cannot be recorded makes them virtually immune from any comeback and gives them a free hand to beat the living daylights out of anyone they please, as well as making any protests, demonstrations etc a complete waste of time.
In effect Spain under Rajoy is almost a police state and some of the measures he has introduced are very reminiscent of Franco.
Much as I prefer a Right of centre govt, I wish the Left the best of luck in this one.
I notice Rajoys draconian policies are already the subject of a complaint to the court of human rights and in this instance I would support any action they take to bring about a return to normality.
This is all in addition to his callous uncaring attitude with regard to long suffering people already in desperate situations, some of which I previously mentioned.

amideislas

Well, the yanks want to get rid of Obama, the Brits want to get rid of the dynamic duo...

You know... because they made everything terrible... (?) Apparently, the Americans and Brits are worse off than anyone else. Even you admit that Britain is now run by the EU, and Cameron has no authority whatsoever. But everybody knows that.

All this time, they could have just pushed some button and fixed it all straight away. But they didn't do anything. And that explains why everybody wants to get rid of them.

And Spain, well, all that corruption (we know that because so many have been jailed for it in the past 5 years) and declining economy... Complete failure.

Good job Spain have Podemos. They're very experienced in politics (been in it for over a year) so they'll just press a button and fix all of this. I love free stuff, so I'm kind of looking forward to that.

By the way, you better be careful what you say about the Spanish government. The "police state" will come and take you away to the concentration camp. Then you'll be screwed.

Fredbargate

My own ( few ) personal contacts with the Spanish police have always been polite, informative, constructive and friendly. Better than with British police.

However please note this excludes contact made close to the Gibraltar frontier where they can only be described as uneducated violent thugs.

Red Eric

It's funny you should say that ami because despite the saying "A week's a long time in politics", I think a year (or 2 years in the case of Podemos) of existence for a political party is actually a very, very brief period, particularly if their project is a long-term one.

Which makes their gaining of 21% of the vote and smashing the bi-party mould in their first general election a stunning achievement. There are plenty of far more experienced hands who have suffered crushing defeats and with good reason. The political landscape in Spain has just changed irrevocably and infinitely for the better.

amideislas

Yes, Podemos is saying all the right things. Just what a lot of people want to hear.

Come to think of it, so is Donald Trump.

Well, if you consume the media, apparently voters are fed up with living in their impoverished, dictatorial "police states" - like Spain, Greece (and the whole of the EU) Britain or the US. It's time for a change I reckon. For lack of any sign of security, economic development or "social fairness", more free stuff would be good (or closing all borders, if that's what tickles you at the moment).

Funny though, the Podemos socialist ideology, while sounding all "fair" and idealistic and stuff, has historically failed in practice. My belief is that its idealistic vision consistently fails to consider how humans actually are. Aside from the historical failures, there are several examples of failing socialist states right now. Particularly in South America.

But yeah, OK, Podemos is different. Just like all the rest.

snikpoh

So who will PP 'get into bed with' - looks like he'll have to try and befriend a number of parties.

iano

Not convinced the proliferation of new parties is such a good thing. The bi-partisan system is not ideal, but an increasingly weakened controlling power is not the recipe for lasting stability, as Spanish history has proved.

The post-Franco honeymoon period might be drawing to a close, but if this new consensus politics gets too messy, there could be a renewed hunger for that type of strong, relatively stable, long term governance.

Dick Dasterdly

I don't think anyone fancies getting into bed with Rajoy, except perhaps one of his own supporters .

I think that will be one of the conditions the PP will have to accept if they're to form a govt.
The other main condition I would think will be an insistence that they moderate some of their policies.

The Lefty parties seem think they have some chance of forming a govt also, but I doubt it myself.
There are a few minority parties holding about ten seats between them which may play an important part in any pact.

I read somewhere that Spain's agreements with the EU may have to renegotiated if the PP is not in full control.

It is so tight that any coalition of no more than two parties may not last very long IMHO and another election could be on the cards.

Dick Dasterdly

I've never had a problem with them myself Fred, though I've seen a thing or two.
It's using the police for political purposes that I would strongly object to.
When did you last see a major demonstration or protest reported on the main news channels for instance ?
They have been very conspicuous by their absence recently, which is far from typical of the Spain that I have always known.

JnK

I fully agree with Dick Dastardly...