FranE

I have read everything I can about it, but I'm still puzzled as to whether we should or shouldn't sign on the Padron. I am confused as to the difference between "Padron", "resident" and "residency".


We live part time in Spain, and although we generally make it 50/50 between Spain and UK, we usually overrun the 183 days in Spain by a week or two. In a couple of years we're hoping to make it 60/40 in favour of Spain.


Our main objective on signing on the Padron would be to get a residents' parking permit, entitling us to park for free in a large part of the town - might sound trivial but it would be a considerable saving for us.


Our main concern is that we don't want to interfere with our current NHS healthcare status, nor current tax situation (we only pay IBI and non-resident property owners tax).


I just read this on the web in "Javea Life":


"The Padrón is simply a local municipal register of residents. It does not mean that once you have registered, you will be subject to fiscal checks or tax inspections".

Is this correct?





I just looked at my local Ayuntamiento website and it says the only requirements are that we are of legal age and "reside in the municipality most of the year".

So does that mean that signing on the Padron means we are RESIDENT, or to put another way HAVE RESIDENCY, or are these two different concepts?


Any help/clarification gratefully received

bobd22

My understanding Fran is that your Spanish address should be your habitual i.e. main home. I know that up to a few years ago the ayuntamientos encouraged people to sign on the padron resident or not simply because the ayuntamiento got money from central government for each person that signed on it. However I believe that now one criteria of signing on the padron is you must have residency all be it not necessarily fiscal residence? I have in fact recently obtained residency in order to try an circumnavigate probable issues that Brexit will or may throw up and next time I am in Spain I will be signing on the padron both to assist in showing Spanish residency proper and fact that later in the year I will be moving full time to Spain.
This is just my understanding of the padron quandary

Here's a link I found that more or less backs up my comments

http://www.theleader.info/2017/03/26/time-check-padron/

Another link

https://www.expatica.com/es/moving-t...on_849450.html

FranE

Thanks Bob. Still confused!


The Ayuntamiento website also says: Those who live in more than one municipality will be registered in the one they live in for the longest time a year.


I suppose if we live there more than 6 months of the year it will be/is indeed our main home. But does the Padron amount to "residency" ? Presumably not, as you have obtained residency without signing on the Padron? Does your residency involve transferring all your tax etc matters to Spain? Is the residency that you have obtained a national/Autonomous Community matter, or one for the local municipality?


Thanks again

bobd22

Just added another link that outlines the conundrum of residency and padron bit like chicken and the egg lol. All I can say is when I got residency in October I didn't have to show I was on the padron in fact I was told by the gestor I could only sign on the padron once I had my residency certificate. I have as a non resident always avoided signing the padron although some criticised me for that my worry was exactly like yours tax residency issue. As I am resident and will be full time resident 2018 that is no longer an issue for me. I suppose it comes down to is the parking permit worth potential if unlikely challenge re Spanish tax ?

FranE

Thanks for the links.


Nothing I read - even in those links - seems to tie up with anything else! And nothing I've read, including the Home Office guidance on Spanish residency (which includes a translation of the relevant Spanish Order) mentions tax. Re health - on the one hand, residency requires you have to have your own cover, and on the other, signing on the Padron entitles you to "opt for municipal services, ... health and ..".


We're spending a full year in Spain from February 2018, I'm not entirely comfortable with "living under the radar", and I too am concerned about Brexit. The parking permit was also about feeling like real Peniscoleas (with a badge on the windscreen and everything!), but without changing our status in any way. But that clearly is not possible.


Thanks for your input Bob, I shall have to keep plugging away at it! And good luck with your permanent move. I've followed your threads on the various issues, with interest.

bobd22

No problem Fran, the only way to get full time free healthcare is either S1, being on the padron as an expat won't give that but may be a requirement for Spaniards?

snikpoh

As I see it;

After 90 days, if you intend on making Spain your habitual residence, then you should sign on the list of foreigners and get your 'residency certificate'.

After 183 days (in total in a calendar year) you are automatically considered tax resident.

Once Spain is your habitual (main) residence, then you should sign on the padron.

So, in your case for 2018, you MUST do all 3

bobd22

Problem I see is Fran has said they only intend to stay for 1 year and doesn't really want to get embroiled in changing tax status. So although what you say is of course correct. I would in Frans situation change must in the final sentence to should. To that end of I were in Fran's position I would not sign on the padron.

FranE

I agree Bob, a lot of what you read about the Padron applies to Spaniards (and foreign permanent residents?). If they move, they sign on the Padron for their new location, and get their healthcare in their new location. I fully realise we aren't entitled to that, and have no problem with it. There can only be one State responsible for anyone's health care, and for us that's the UK. So it follows that the UK is where we should pay taxes.


There seems to be very little information out there specifically for people in our position, ie long term part-timers. Perhaps there just isn't any official provision for people like us? Ultimately, in the event of a serious health problem, we would come "home" ie England. So regardless of how long we spend each year in Spain, it is not and never will be our "habitual residence". It will always be a lengthy holiday, so even though we "should" follow all those procedures, I have come to the conclusion that we're not going to.


Thanks again Bob and Snikpoh. I am now clear in my mind.

FranE

PS: We have always wanted to experience a full year in Spain, and that's why we're doing it from February '18 to February '19, so as to be back in the UK when we leave the EU. I have checked, and our EHIC's will cover us for that year, because it is not a permanent move. After March '19, as regards health cover, who knows? We'll take it as it comes.

bobd22

You are correct re the EHIC Fran although many will try telling you it is limited to X time limit. I recently attended an EHIC workshop along with people who work within the EHIC department, they confirmed to me the only criteria was that it was a temporary visit no specific time limit. I hope you enjoy your year break.

Fred James

The only thing that matters is whether the Spanish health provider will accept it for treatment. I am pretty sure they could not care less about how long your temporary trip has lasted!

I find it interesting that during the recent Brexit negotiations they have now said that our healthcare is now OK as they have agreed that expats can still have an EHIC for so long as they continue to live in the EU country that they have chosen and it will also cover them across the rest of the EU. It implies that permanent healthcare will be provided with possession of the card, but as we all know, bona fide residents are not supposed to use it!

FranE

I agree Fred. It does often seem that David Davis doesn't know the difference between EHIC and S1.

bobd22

My view on this Fred is I think that our government ministers have not actually got a clue on how medical care for expats works. I don't think they have a clue that expat pensioners rely on the S1 rather than the EHIC.

missile

My view, is they don't have a clue or care about anything ..... other than how far to stick their noses in the trough.