Pocaloca

Wot, no thread about Papa Paco?

He is getting a lot of stick in the Spanish media for his murky past (especially collaborating with Argentinian dictators, involved in kidnapping babies, etc etc) and his homophobic and sexist pronouncements. I've only met a couple of people who think he is a good choice, and that's mainly because he's not Italian and used to go to work on the bus.

I know we shouldn't expect a reformist pope, but is this one a big step backwards?

Or could it eventually be a good thing because it will alienate even more people from the catholic church?

cricketman

Sounds like the perfect Catholic!

Retired in Euskadi

Far too early to judge. Give the poor man time to (hopefully) sort a few issues out.
If he alienates people with "homophobic" statements, then it's likely that those people may not understand the word homophobic, a word that's overused these days.
One might be against the idea of gay marriage, or gay living, but as a Christian that shouldn't make one homophobic; far from it.

The Beast

Good day Poca girl!

I was baptised into the Catholic faith but over my lifetime I have seen my faith diminish to nothing but a memory now....But.....??

This world is a broken place! Who or what should we look to for guidance or support? Governments, Royalty, Science, the Church? Great leaders come in all shapes and guises. Winston Churchill had no truck whatsoever with the High Church or the Catholic faith but was full of verve and spirit and guided more than a nation. Pope John Paul was a conservative Catholic leader but turned out to be one of the greatest politicians of the era.
I remember his speech when Israel began building the huge walls between them and the Palestinians...He said ‘’ They should be building bridges, not walls’’.

Science itself will never be able to explain what it is to be human; and left to our own venal and cynical devices we will continue to merrily destroy what is left of this planet to feather our nests on such a short term basis that should there ever be intelligent life discovered elsewhere, when they eventually do come across us....They will shake whatever they have for heads in sheer and utter bewilderment at the waste of it all!

So let us not underestimate the power a new Pope has for doing some good in this rotten world we live in. For whatever misgivings and deeds he did or didn’t act on during Argentina’s past, he will be tainted...He will be vilified for paedophile clergy and cover-ups and for not doubt many other things. But looking at the human race as a whole and how we have soo lost our way....Perhaps he has a 'Divine' opportunity to give a little guidance toward some more moral and peaceful way of life....Well, for some anyway...

Power to the Pope I say!

Pocaloca

He has said that adoption by same-sex couples is a form of child abuse (which is a bit rich given the church's involvement in genuine child abuse, and the extent to which it was covered up to protect the abusers). He claims that gay marriage is "a scheme against God's plan".

These people can hide their hatred of homosexuality behind their religion but it is still homophobia, of an institutionalised nature.

He was also strongly opposed to the distribution in Argentina of free condoms in an attempt to control AIDS, saying it was part of a "culture of death".

Pocaloca

So John Paul said Israel should be building bridges not walls - which had precisely zero effect, no? Popes have no real political influence, they are just there to keep the faithful masses under control.

What do you think Francisco could do immediately, to make the world a better place?

cricketman

Declare that they were wrong - no such thing as a Holy Trinity or any supernatural omnipotent power

jackytoo

What do you think Francisco could do immediately, to make the world a better place?


Clean the church of child abusers..probably impossible as they all seem to be at it and keep out of politics, not his job!

jackytoo

Fredbargate

Maybe denude the church of it's riches and use the money to educate and assist the poor and starving.

jackytoo

BTW his parents were italian.

davidinspain

Speechless!

Retired in Euskadi

Popes can have political influence. It was John Paul II who supported the Polish dockworkers, which began the gradual decline of Communism in Eastern Europe. His influence was quite strong.

Popes have stated that same sex unions are not in keeping with Christ's teaching. If that's what people want, fine, but they shouldn't expect the church to lower its duty of upholding God's teaching, surely.

There are often statements taken out of context or mistranslated. Handing out free condoms is hardly an answer to teaching sexual responsibility. After all, they haven't prevented Britain having the highest teenage pregnancy rate in Europe. I would like to think that a quotation like "culture of death" had a much deeper Christian meaning behind it.
As for child abusers, it'll take an awful long time to heal the damage. Obviously more should have been done. Hopefully it will lead to prison sentences for those found guilty.

Retired in Euskadi

Why?

Pocaloca

This was not so much about avoiding pregnancy but preventing the spread of STDs. Vatican opposition to the use of condoms contributed hugely to the spread of AIDS in Africa. At one point Benedict even claimed that they didn't reduce the risk (complete nonsense of course). He finally backtracked in 2010 after pressure from other cardinals.

The Pope drops Catholic ban on condoms in historic shift

You can't stop people having sex, but these papal bans on contraception, abortion etc make life unnecessarily difficult for many people, especially women and especially in the developing world. Why should the religious doctrine of a minority affect the lives of the majority?