scampicat

Glad we left when we could

cricketman

We have a "large" amount of savings. Well into 6 figures, mainly in sterling, all declared on the modula 720

The tax situation you talk about is only in your head, it is imaginary. The Spanish government has not taxed anyone on their overseas assets and they have not proposed doing so

If and when that happens, then obviously we would reasses, but to make a decision based on something you think might possibly happen at some time in the future seems bizarre to me

jimenato

I don't think people are necessarily worried about having some kind of surprise wealth tax that might be imposed on their assets, I think they are worried about having to pay income tax on the rent, dividends or interest that the assets earn them and, possibly worse, the tax they should have been paying since they became resident.

Incidentally, not many people know about the 720 asset declaration and a fair few don't even know they are supposed to pay income tax on foreign earnings.

When I mention such things they say that they are already paying tax on it in the UK/Ireland or whatever and it's got nothing to do with Spain - it's entirely separate.

It strikes me that if you read forums and the like you get worried and do something about it and if you don't you don't do anything and don't worry.

I know which group has got it right.

cricketman

Maybe you are right. Ignorance is bliss I suppose.

I've met British people in the Costa Del Sol who say they don't need to pay autonomo because they pay national insurance in the UK. Seriously

I guess these people should be saying that they left Spain because they are worried that they have defrauded the Spanish tax office for many years and want to run away before they get caught!

Neptuno

How can anyone be ignorant about the 720? If they don't know it's because they don't WANT to know, and there is no excuse.
Local radio, free ex pat press, financial services have publicised this very widely-are you saying these ignorant people live in a bubble? They should be proactive about their affairs, as no one is going to knock on their door and say"Did you know you should be doing this, paying this?" or "did you know this and that law has changed?" Did they not look into this when they moved to Spain?
When I hear people saying things like "I didn't earn it in Spain, so I'm not paying income tax in Spain!) my blood boils.
Can you imagine their reaction if you told them that they should be paying Spain CGT on that house they sold in the UK, on those premium bond/lottery winnings, that lump sum when they retired, or imputed income tax on that bolt hole they have in the UK, or tax on that rental property?
Why can't all those who sign on the foreigners register (aka residencia) be given tax information on their liabilities in Spain at the same time, and the Hacienda be sent their details automatically? That wouldn't solve the problem of those not signing on, however.

Mitzyboy

I made the decision because my wife was diagnosed with cancer, as you already probably know by reading past posts.

The tax situation is not in my head, as you put it. For your information I ran a very successful business for many years by making decisions based on what might possibly happen sometime in the future and it has stood me well so far. If others choose not to then thats their choice

Dick Dasterdly

I tend to agree with Mitzy, better safe than sorry, especially with regard to this present Govt which has already taken harsh, unexpected and controversial decisions, some of which are now being brought to book by the EU Human rights Court.

To my mind Rajoy and co. are getting pretty desperate and all bets are off, especially with regard to Expats, who look to be much easier pickings than the Spanish with their long term and ever improving expertise or should that be culture, in avoiding the taxman, even more now than ever before.

Possibly slightly off topic, but I believe as has been said in other EU circles that this is one of the main reasons why a dramatic economic recovery is not being made or is likely to be made.

me me

TBH most decisions people make are based on something that might possibly happen in the future.

examples: Most investments are made based on the 'future.

My daughter has just bought a house and while doing other improvements, has decided to have the open treads stairs changed, because she might possibly have children in the future.
Getting fully comp insurance incase you have an accident that is your own fault or critical illness insurance cover.

The world cannot function without decisions being made on only the possible outcome.

In that respect, I find your view bizarre.

So, I personally think that Mitzy is acting the way most people do in everyday life, making decisions based on assessing/guessing the possibilities that may or not happen in the future.

cricketman

First of all, sorry Mitzy, I didn't know that was the reason at all

Everyone can make their choices how they want. Re taxes on assets, what is the worst they can happen? They could issue perhaps a 1 or 2% levy on foreign assets. They do that in year x, and I leave in year y. So not such a risk

steviedeluxe

Given all the negativity, you'd have thought the number of foreigners buying property in Spain had stagnated, or even fallen.
The figures show the exact opposite.
Purchase of properties by foreigners in Spain rose 36% in 2013 (still below the 2006 peak though).

http://www.lavanguardia.com/economia...ecio-2013.html

(article in Spanish)

me me

So a 2% tax on. 800k of UK assets would be 16 k.

I or OH would not be willing to hand over that amount.

Also 800k tied up in a London property which still has a son or daughter living in, would not necessarily mean the owner can afford such a tax bill.

Mitzyboy

Yes you are right .... however a 1 - 2% levy on my foreign assets could have cost me dearly as I owned property in both countries, and it's therefore a financial risk that would be worth taking into consideration for anyone who has substantial assets.

It may happen .... It may not, but all in all the right decision was made for a variety of reasons

@ steviedeluxe ....... if you have no assets elsewhere, you have no worries. Maybe this will point to a less wealthy type of person moving to Spain, eh?

cricketman

Crickey, I wouldn't move countries because of a 2% change of income

Seems completely irrelevent, you would be leading your lives based on completely the wrong objectives

But I get the point that if it was a property then you wouldn't have cash in hand

However, this is pure speculation. I am happy to bet a lot of money that this will not come to pass in the next few years, which essentially is what I am doing!

me me

You have it all wrong.

You said that they could impose a tax on UK assets.

A person with an 800k ASSET who is taxed on 2% of its worth, does not have a change of 2% in their INCOME.

Some may only have a 20k pension or Income.

I thought you worked with stats, so you should know that a 2% tax on ASSETS does not mean a 2% change in INCOME.

I would have thought that you would not have to have that fact pointed out to you, but obviously I overestimated your understanding of figures.

Casa Santo Estevo

.....and now this has been published in the same torygraph newspaper.

Falling property values and soaring costs are forcing expats home...

That article linked to in post one is looking even more like an infomercial.