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Old Aug 7th 2017, 9:30 am   #46
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Default Re: MOVING TO SPAIN PRIOR BREXIT

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It certainly is a sad state of affairs...
Yes, it is a mess, they are in a Catch 22 situation because Cameron and Hammond at least know that we need people to pick our fruit and work in our care homes because, sure as hell, you won't get the Jeremy Kyle crowd doing it.
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Old Aug 7th 2017, 12:43 pm   #47
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Default Re: MOVING TO SPAIN PRIOR BREXIT

Just because the EU say it has been rejected doesn't mean it won't happen. At the moment the EU seems to be saying No to everything - strange negotiation!! The UK seems to be happy to accept the people they want into the country just not those whose only qualification is that they hold an EU passport. This is their published proposals https://www.gov.uk/government/public...nals-in-the-eu. I've not yet bottomed out what the Eu counter proposal is - status quo perhaps???

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Old Aug 7th 2017, 12:58 pm   #48
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Default Re: MOVING TO SPAIN PRIOR BREXIT

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Just because the EU say it has been rejected doesn't mean it won't happen. At the moment the EU seems to be saying No to everything - strange negotiation!! The UK seems to be happy to accept the people they want into the country just not those whose only qualification is that they hold an EU passport. This is their published proposals https://www.gov.uk/government/public...nals-in-the-eu. I've not yet bottomed out what the Eu counter proposal is - status quo perhaps???
That the backdating has been rejected is a presumption because we are not being told anything from either government or EU. I base the presumption on the fact it has always been said that other than negotiating nothing changes re EU rights until we actually leave as we are still a full member, the UK is now talking depending who you listen to to accept March 2019 as earliest end date for freedom of movement, although they now say it may continue for some time after that with some changes? Could those changes be the implementation of rules such as Spain use? Which they could have imposed at anytime. I have no idea but the clock is ticking danger is no final outcome! Then what? We crash out or they kick the can a bit further down the road.
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Old Aug 7th 2017, 2:15 pm   #49
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Default Re: MOVING TO SPAIN PRIOR BREXIT

It is clear that they intend to have a transition period regarding free movement, but have recently restated that it ends in March 2019. That is probably true, but all that will end is free movement as currently administered (in other words no controls at all). If they start imposing new rules (which as we know already exist in EU law) they will claim that they are now in a transition period and they will be selective about who they let in, which they should be doing now anyway.
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Old Aug 7th 2017, 2:40 pm   #50
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Default Re: MOVING TO SPAIN PRIOR BREXIT

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That the backdating has been rejected is a presumption because we are not being told anything from either government or EU. I base the presumption on the fact it has always been said that other than negotiating nothing changes re EU rights until we actually leave as we are still a full member, the UK is now talking depending who you listen to to accept March 2019 as earliest end date for freedom of movement, although they now say it may continue for some time after that with some changes? Could those changes be the implementation of rules such as Spain use? Which they could have imposed at anytime. I have no idea but the clock is ticking danger is no final outcome! Then what? We crash out or they kick the can a bit further down the road.
Because many of the remainers never bothered to go out and vote, initially, the Conservatives thought that Brexit was the will of the people which is where the "Brexit means Brexit" mantra came from. Now they have slowly realized it is not the will of the majority. I think various surveys show that about 70% of people want to remain in the EU.

I think they are desperately searching for some face-saving solution which is probably why there is a lack of news. I suppose if they can kick the can down the road, it will give them more breathing/dithering space. My guess is that we will end up in some form of hybrid watered down EU and basically no better off than when all of this started.

Cameron nearly got caught out with the Scottish referendum. I cannot believe he made the same mistake twice. This is what happens with these career politicians.

But, lots of good information in this thread, especially for those of us planning to move to Spain so keep it coming. The information posted about the Vienna Treaty at the start of the 'After Brexit' is particularly interesting.

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Old Aug 7th 2017, 2:41 pm   #51
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Default Re: MOVING TO SPAIN PRIOR BREXIT

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It is clear that they intend to have a transition period regarding free movement, but have recently restated that it ends in March 2019. That is probably true, but all that will end is free movement as currently administered (in other words no controls at all). If they start imposing new rules (which as we know already exist in EU law) they will claim that they are now in a transition period and they will be selective about who they let in, which they should be doing now anyway.

Eaxactly Fred and they could have said they would impose those conditions pre the referendum which my gues is would have satisfied many and swung the vote.
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Old Aug 7th 2017, 4:01 pm   #52
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Default Re: MOVING TO SPAIN PRIOR BREXIT

I don't think you should be swayed by surveys - the days of the pollster seem numbered until they work out a way to question a cross section of the public. For instance the current scheme by YOUGuv whereby they give applicants goodies for responding has blown up in their face on the last four occasion. Just look at the latest British Attitude survey for an opposing view (another load of rubbish in my book).
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Old Aug 7th 2017, 4:56 pm   #53
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Default Re: MOVING TO SPAIN PRIOR BREXIT

The Brexit people are terrified of any form of further vote i.e. as lib dem suggested a vote at end of negotiations as to whether to continue given whatever is negotiated or stay in. I do sense (not from surveys) that many are now starting to worry re future prospects both for themselves and the country. Of course such a vote would put the ball in the EUs court as they would give nothing possibly hoping vote would be to stay in. We must wait and see.
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Old Aug 7th 2017, 5:12 pm   #54
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Default Re: MOVING TO SPAIN PRIOR BREXIT

In my view, the only possible way that the Tories would even consider a second vote (as the Lib-Dem chap suggested) would be if they ousted Theresa May, which is not inconceivable given the in-fighting and strife within the party at the moment. A new leader of the party could use May's blind enthusiasm as a device by which to introduce a second vote to 'ensure the will of the people' is carried out. I strongly suspect, if that were the case, that the Remain camp would win by a sizeable majority
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Old Aug 7th 2017, 6:24 pm   #55
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Default Re: MOVING TO SPAIN PRIOR BREXIT

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In my view, the only possible way that the Tories would even consider a second vote (as the Lib-Dem chap suggested) would be if they ousted Theresa May, which is not inconceivable given the in-fighting and strife within the party at the moment. A new leader of the party could use May's blind enthusiasm as a device by which to introduce a second vote to 'ensure the will of the people' is carried out. I strongly suspect, if that were the case, that the Remain camp would win by a sizeable majority
Kieran you may well be right. Another option of course is another election hung as in 2010 and needing (if they do better than last 2 elections) the lib Dems in coalition. One of the conditions for support may be a public vote at end of negotiations. Of course who knows? I am not sure those steering the ship know where or what they are heading for.
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Old Aug 7th 2017, 6:44 pm   #56
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Default Re: MOVING TO SPAIN PRIOR BREXIT

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The Brexit people are terrified of any form of further vote i.e. as lib dem suggested a vote at end of negotiations as to whether to continue given whatever is negotiated or stay in. I do sense (not from surveys) that many are now starting to worry re future prospects both for themselves and the country. Of course such a vote would put the ball in the EUs court as they would give nothing possibly hoping vote would be to stay in. We must wait and see.
I'm not sure that "exiting Brexit" is likely, or even a good idea.

Despite the economic and political downsizing that will result, Britain doesn't really "belong" in that club. Britain has never seen itself as "European", and has served to block European political and economic union at nearly every turn.

The chalice is already poisoned. The EU gives lip service to "welcoming Britain back", but in the same breath, speaks of a Britain that no longer enjoys all the special opt-outs and rebates it currently enjoys (the best deal in the EU, bar none).

So, politically, I just don't see it happening, unless the British electorate overwhelmingly forces it, and accepts the same terms as all other members. And we know that's not going to happen.

Britain (or England, as may well ultimately play out), is just going to have to live with it. Unfortunately.
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Old Aug 7th 2017, 7:00 pm   #57
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Default Re: MOVING TO SPAIN PRIOR BREXIT

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I'm not sure that "exiting Brexit" is likely, or even a good idea.

Despite the economic and political downsizing that will result, Britain doesn't really "belong" in that club. Britain has never seen itself as "European", and has served to block European political and economic union at nearly every turn.

The chalice is already poisoned. The EU gives lip service to "welcoming Britain back", but in the same breath, speaks of a Britain that no longer enjoys all the special opt-outs and rebates it currently enjoys (the best deal in the EU, bar none).

So, politically, I just don't see it happening, unless the British electorate overwhelmingly forces it, and accepts the same terms as all other members. And we know that's not going to happen.

Britain (or England, as may well ultimately play out), is just going to have to live with it. Unfortunately.
Yes it would be very difficult to stop the train now it's rolling. As you say we have lost all the rebates and special conditions so if it was stopped then it would cost the country more. I don't see it being stopped all together but some cobbled together option would not surprise me. Who knows.
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Old Aug 7th 2017, 8:29 pm   #58
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Default Re: MOVING TO SPAIN PRIOR BREXIT

Just remember any rebates we were given were from our own money!! We may have had "special opt-outs and rebates it currently enjoys" but these still cost us approx 300 million pounds a week!! I'm afraid the cash cow is going and taking it's money with it.
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Old Aug 9th 2017, 5:19 am   #59
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Default Re: MOVING TO SPAIN PRIOR BREXIT

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Just remember any rebates we were given were from our own money!! We may have had "special opt-outs and rebates it currently enjoys" but these still cost us approx 300 million pounds a week!! I'm afraid the cash cow is going and taking it's money with it.
God, luckily Brexit will get rid of those British drama queens. Your arrogance is poison and not needed in the EU. Good that the freedom of movement for the British will end.
Btw, there are many countries that contribute cash to the EU, not only Britain. My country certainly does. And we do it because we want our neighbors to have good standards of living. We don't like and tolerate inequality as much as you apparently do. And in the end those countries will help us in turn once there economy is growing ( which apparently they do now!!). And no, Britain will not reap the benefits of this generosity without contributing. You will pay for access to our markets. Leaves only one thing to say: So long, good bye und Auf Nimmerwiedersehen.
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Old Aug 9th 2017, 5:47 am   #60
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Default Re: MOVING TO SPAIN PRIOR BREXIT

Given a choice of which union to be in - EU or UK - I know how many people in Scotland would choose.
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