Originally Posted by KieronF

And, of course, therein lies the problem. Neither side of the debate knew themselves what the reality of 'Brexit' might be - the politicians were as much in the dark as the electorate were and the fact that the arguments did not follow part political lines confused the issue even more. The electorate did not feel able to put their faith in the rhetoric of one party over another because all of the parties were infighting and offering confused messages to the public.


In trying to decipher the facts the electorate were forced to put undue reliance on the opinions of so-called 'experts' - the Chancellor being one, the Governor of the Bank of England another, but even they were just making it up as they went along with agendas and reputations to protect. What the public were left with was a mass of confusing and often conflicting guesswork dressed up as factual information and they were left to forage through all that in order to arrive at an opinion.


Families or other groups that might normally have been expected to vote together were splintered, opinions formed from media sources or experiences from the distant past - but however they voted, the outcome was a slender majority for the UK to leave the EU. Even today there is still confusion. By calling a snap election the PM is preparing to lay down fresh markers for freedom of movement that were not on the table just a week or so ago. The Brexit process, much like the debate that surrounded the referendum, is shrouded in confusion, it is an evolving process with the aims and goals of the UK and the EU changing over time depending on public opinion and political expediency - so anyone who imagines they can see into the future and predict with any accuracy what is going to be the final outcome is, frankly, deluding themselves.

Originally Posted by johnnyone

I agree. It's seems clear to me that most people voted (on both sides) without having any idea of what brexit will really mean.
Simply because we didn't and still do not know (and I do not believe the politicians know either)

Originally Posted by johnnyone

I agree. It's seems clear to me that most people voted (on both sides) without having any idea of what brexit will really mean.
Simply because we didn't and still do not know (and I do not believe the politicians know either)

Originally Posted by LouisB

Demographically you're in a minority. Totally entitled to your opinion. But again wasn't just speaking about you, was referring to the general voting pattern across the ages, okay? 😉

Originally Posted by dougal03

IGM,good to hear you are confident about your future,however it is not good to moan about what you inherited from older generations.Some of us grew up during a world war but I,m not going to blame the Luftwaffe for never having an original birth certificate because our home was bombed.I have had my own business in UK & Spain so can compare situations especially as I came here before Spain joined the EU.It was a breath of fresh air when,because of that,to see young families being able to relocate here without having to go through the endless procedures we had to do,& that was despite buying an existing Spanish owned business.One condition was that a Spanish national had to be offered any employment vacancy first.That certainly went out once Spain joined the club.Once the UK leaves it will be difficult for British youngsters to come to Europe on spec.unless they have good recognised qualifications(an E pass in IT might not suffice)& language skills,to have the job opportunities that have been there previously.It would be interesting to hear from you about where you are & what you do at present.I have grandchildren living on the south coast & in Scotland & Wales & want them to continue to have,in their careers,the same freedom of movement enjoyed by so many(of YOUR generation I guess)up till Brexit.

Originally Posted by LouisB

Until you build the TARDIS it's probably worth cutting out the fantasy that Britain will be like the good old days, ruling the world on boats, drinking tea in India while controlling the captured commonwealth nations. The world continues to move on, there is no going back, regardless.

Originally Posted by amideislas

It's not "my" idea. It's a matter of public historical record.

Originally Posted by amideislas

Would you happen to be another one of those with the brilliant idea to live the high life by spending your life savings on a bank-owned bar on some side street in Costa del Brit?

Originally Posted by lgm1963

Of course the fine details could never be known. No country had left the EU before, how could the pedantic details be known?

However the salient points, i.e. stopping the free movement of people, leaving the single market and stopping paying the extortionate annuals subscriptions were absolutely known and exactly what those of us wanted stopped.

How it happens is irrelevant.

Originally Posted by tuhler

Uk now has 15 ships in the RN...less than 50k troops...22 fighter aircraft....lets rule the waves...UK for ever

Originally Posted by lgm1963

Utter garbage.

Originally Posted by lgm1963

I wasn't moaning about what I inherited from older generations, I was stating that it is facile to bleat about how we will impact on the current young generation because of the decisions we make today if we cannot learn from the mistakes of our own past.

I find it odd you think I am not allowed to mention the wrong that was imposed on me when I truly believe that we as a nation would have been much better off outside the EU as it is today.

I have not "enjoyed" freedom of movement, I have been a victim of freedom of movement. As a self employed builder, when I have to compete with eastern europeans with no fixed abode, no taxes to pay, no insurance, no vehicle insurance or tax, people who seem able to claim in work benefits because they work for nothing.....that is exactly why the system is broken and there are hundreds of thousands like me for whom free movement does not mean ease of living abroad or ease of going on holiday, it means suppression of wages and impoverishment.

Originally Posted by bobd22

Lgm this is an expat forum and living in Spain thread therefore not surprising to that most opinions do relate to that and freedom of movement etc. Yes we must all accept the affects on UK but to ignore expats and their issues in relation to this situation but join a forum and negatively comment on their views and debate is really little more than trolling. As for east European builders etc good and bad in all walks of life. One assumes that their are no dodgy home grown builders ? Home grown drivers that don't tax and insure their vehicles? I can assure you from personal experience that is not the case. You seem bitter in reality that people can and have moved / retired to warmer climates?