Mitzyboy

No not at all ........ its aimed at no one in particular just wanted to get an interesting discussion going on a subject I've seen on numerous forums.

Personally I obviously had some issues with the UK, hence me being here. But I love going back there on the odd occasion, I love the countryside, I don't find the cuisine too bad at all, but I'm choosy about the restaurants I go to.

Yob culture, general attitude etc was a depressing aspect there. When I came here we had the same thoughts about not mixing with Brits, but when we got here we thought "Why". As I'm unlikely to mix with the kind of guy who drinks 20 pints of carling and then pukes up over the pavement that side of it really doesn't effect me.

Our local restaurant here is French run, theres several Brit restaurants in the town and one of them is quite good so yes, I've been known to go there, in just the same way I'll go to a chinese or (now I know where one is) Indian.

dazzle

Perhaps it depends where in the UK you are, what your expectations are or how you treat the kids in the first place. I don't have any answers but it's not the UK I recognise from my local area. In your given example I would fully expect the first response from the kids on my street.

I often pick my teenagers up from the local comprehensive and never see the 'yob culture' that is so often talked about and portrayed in the media.

Chiclanagir

ABSOLUTELY.

Chiclanagir

Can´t completely agree with you regarding the latter. It seems to be a case of just dump your rubbish anywhere. I saw a young boy of about 11 throwing
his ice cream paper in our street and he was with his mother. When I asked him to pick it up he did and then walked a few paces up the road and threw it down again. So worldwide I guess.

keithwalters

23 years was one hell of a wait!!!

Anne and I held off starting a family because we thought a baby would just be an excuse to delay the move even more - better to start the family here in Spain as the family back in the UK will accept it more easily - mind you we now keep thinking of new reasons to delay starting a family - holidays, new car, you know...that sort of thing!

Also, Anne´s father spent literally decades dreaming of retiring to Spain, only to die when he was 63. All that dreaming without getting what he wanted.....makes me really sad thinking about it. So I thought why the hell should we put up with Britain for the next 30 odd years on the off chance that I might survive long enough to enjoy my retirement in Spain? So we sold up and went.

Compost Mentis

This rings so many bells for me. Daily, I am reading about children being shot by other children or gangs of children, elderly people being beaten up and left for dead, elderly women being raped in there own homes and robbed. It's a never ending reality in my neck of the woods. Fortunately I have no first hand experience of these crimes, but I wonder when my turn might be. I don't want to grow old in fear of my life.
At the moment I have an allotment. I grow a good selection of produce, and love working there. However, as soon as the sun starts to go down I have to leave, because at night it is inhabited by drug abusers, who break into sheds and steal equipment to pay for a fix. The place is frequently vandalised, green houses burned down and produce stolen. For a long time I have been dreaming of having somewhere with some outside space, where I can live in relative safety. I think I have found it now, and have great hopes of it. I feel privileged to be moving to a country in which I can feel safe, and actually afford to live albeit simply. I have every intention of integrating and hopefully contributing in someway.
Sometimes I feel a bit guilty, a bit like a rat leaving a sinking ship, leaving my friends and family to get on with it, while I escape to the sun, however not for long. This is my opportunity, and believe me I am going to take it, and live it to the full. I have every intention of coming back to visit, I just don't want to live here anymore. OOOoops that was a bit of an essay eh!

Mr Impish

What grinds on the people I know in the UK about foreigners going there are them living in their own communities, not wanting to speak the lingo, expecting to be accommodated in so many ways. Exactly what a lot of people do when they move to Spain. I'm for full immersion in the Spanish way of life. Apart from having my tea bags sent over its full on Spanish (culture and language) for me. My roots are English and I will always be English but I've come here to be as Spanish as possible. When in Spain do as the Spanish do, I know it may be 20 years behind the UK but that suits me just dandy. Hopefully by the time Spain catches up I’ll be too old to worry about it.
Each to their own though. I wouldn’t dream of telling others how to run their lives.

Mitzyboy

I'd agree with that, yes. A lot of it is complete ignorance also. In this area it doesn't seem the norm though as I see brits and spaniards mixing although there are the die hards that go to the Sportsman and sit outside drinking beer at 10 in the morning.

Its not so much the people, my real arguement is why should we refuse to go into a Brit restaurant or shop just because its brit owned. The restaurant should be judged on its merits, not the fact that its UK owned. And much as I love the mediterranean diet and Spanish food, there is the odd occasion when we need the cherries or whatever for our favourite fruit cake

Mr Impish

Makes no difference to me who owns the bar. But I won’t patronise bars or restaurants with union jacks flying outside. I’ll judge it by the quality of food inside, so bars of this type don’t get me in the door! They should look like any other restaurant or Bar in (real) Spain. Having said that, I’ll be taking the cross of St George to the bar tomorrow for some friendly banter with the locals. Think we will be in a minority of like 30 to 2. I know it’s only a friendly but “Come On England” Whatever the result we will have a good laugh afterwards. Hope you find that where you live!

firtreesix

Interesting viewpoints here indeed.

My story is that of determining at an early age, Scotland and the UK in general was not where I wanted to live, I was 15 at the time attending school in Edinburgh. Moved to Australia at eighteen, but found it not to my liking. Then it was on to Florida, which I must admit I found very difficult for me to fit in. However, I persevered and rermained there for almost 30 years. I consider Florida as my home now, but owing to some massive upheavals in my life, I find myself in Spain now with a new wife and life.

I have to say that I have found it very difficult to adapt to the Spanish way of life. I find the bureaucracy to be mind boggling, some of the red tape is almost medieval, but I do get a chuckle from most of it. The Spanish people in general are polite and extremely easy to get along with. Yes, they have different ways, but that is part of the charm, isn´t it? Coming from Florida I am spoilt in terms of mass consumerism and simplified bureaucracy, so I do find the shops being closed in the early afternoons and Sundays a bit of a PIA, but I get over it. After all, it was the same in my hometown of Dunoon, shops closed on Wed. afternoons and Sundays, plus the first Wed. of each month evrything was closed all day long!! My wife is dual nationality, Spanish and British, speaks Spanish fluently and was a teacher in Madrid for 30 yrs. I´m lucky with this as she understands Spanish culture and life like the back of her hand...it´s quite amusing when she gets into a heated discussion with locals as they realise that they´re dealing with an extranjero who is clued up. My Spanish is chronic as I find that at my mid fifties, the old brain doesn´t work as well as it should. Still, I´ve only been here 3 yrs so I fel I can be excused. I understand a lot of what I hear, but just don´t think fast enough to say my bit. We don´t have satellite TV, my computers are in Spanish, most of my neighbours are Spanish and we shop at the Spanish markets, supermarkets, ferreterias, panaderias etc.

The few times I have returned to the Uk I have been very disappointed with the directions events have led to. It all seems very different to the country I left in 1970, reinforcing my conviction that I made the correct decision all those years ago. I don´t go out of my way to avoid Brits, there are good and bad people wherever one goes, nor is there a perfect country in our world. Tourists are, well, tourists, however some of the tourists that frequent the Costa Blanca defy one´s attempts to be sympathetic to their cause...I´m well used to it in Florida with the annual influx of snowbirds regaling us with tales of how much better it is in New Jersey/Ohio/Pennsylvania etc.

I do agrre with the view that those who embed themselves in colonies of Little Britain/Holland/Germany etc are missing out on what the real Spain has to offer, but, hey, that´s their loss. I enjoy the challenges that a new country has to offer. Why, we´re off to do battle with Iberdrola today Not to mention the typical lack of after sales service that we are experiencing with our constructor of the apt block we live in. After all, it would be abit boring if it all went seamlessly, no?

Good discussion this....

Richard

poollounger

Returned from a couple of days of winter sailing to find this discussion..the winter sailing was great.. the fresh air, the hot water bottles, the delightful creeks of North Kent.
I know Mitzi and I exchanged views on this topic in another thread.
I don't think that integration is the whole issue. Its about co-operation and sharing, in Spain as elsewhere. We talk about yob culture and disenchantment in Britain, in a country where the welfare state is more supportive than it has ever been, yet there is a huge divide....friends who work in teaching and housing in Kent and Essex tell me that they feel pupils and clients inhabit a different planet to the one they live in. I don't have any answers, but believe it might be a sense of alienation, caused by many different factors.
When house hunting in Ayamonte an estate agent of mixed Spanish/Northern European parentage told me that he moved from Denia in disgust when he entered a bar and no one understood him when he ordered in Spanish.
If we are not sensitive to the way we invade this country, there can only be a backlash in years to come. There are social problems which will increase.. towns like Barbate and Cadiz are not all idyllic havens but have drug problems. There are problems with controlling the spread of HIV and other issues which will possibly increase in years to come. If the incomers with higher incomes continue to believe they can shield themselves from these by buying into expat ghettos then they need to think again.
I know that the economic benefits to the Spanish are great, but it seems to me that the relationship in many areas of expat domination can be a little 'servant/master'. If we treat the Spanish and their culture with parity then we can still retain our own, but allay any possibilty of a future backlash.
As was pointed out to me in Chiclana by the estate agent selling us our house, the Spanish live in flats because the expats have pushed up the cost of villas.

helenp

I believe personally in total intergration (for myself anyway), when we move next year we will be living inland in totally Spanish area so won't have much choice but to learn fast. Whats the point in moving to another Country if you cannott understand what people are saying that is part of the experience becoming fluent in another language and living the Spanish way of life. Saying that my uncle and auntie moved out a couple of years ago to a coastal expat area and they learnt Spanish before they went but got frustrated that the Spanish in bars etc wanted to speak English to them hence not getting much practice. If we are in coastal areas we encounter this and I feel I am cheating if I speak English, also you do get looks from British as if they think you are showing off. Some cannott even use the basics I mean anyone knows hola etc, but some insist on saying please and thankyou. We were in Lanzarote a few years ago and a british tourist was on a bus asking for a fare for 'two' the driver was prompting her and kept saying 'dos' which she must of known what it meant but insisted on saying the british way whilst in his country. If a Spanish person walked into a shop in the UK using his native tongue he would just get blank looks.
I do not object to using British shops occasionally although they are far more expensive so you might aswell get the Spanish product.
I am not ashamed to be British i am very proud although we do need to try a little harder and start kids learning language earlier at school. An experience on holiday last year summed it up, we stayed on a mainly Spanish complex in Torrox Costa and around the pool was a French family who were talking fluent Spanish to a Spanish family. My daughter and I sat there quietly and I felt slightly embarrassed with just a basic grasp of both.

Helen

Mitzyboy

I wonder if this varies area to area. Around here it seems to me the brits are trying hard to integrate. The Spanish lessons this year were full, so we couldn't get on them and I understand the class was around 60. I suppose I count us as coastal, being within 6 kms of the beach.

I agree with a lot of whats being said. At this point I find it difficult to imagine us as being able to integrate completely as we live up in the hills away from the town. Our neighbour is Spanish/Belgian and insists on speaking english (although they speak to each other in French)

As I mentioned before, we intend to do our best to learn the language (The spirit is willing, but the brain is weak) and we do shop at spanish supermarkets, veg's from the farmers market, and drink in Spanish bars (although we do get some strange looks sometimes). I also go to the local fiestas, although I have no idea whats going on most of the time.

I do feel its important to retain ones identity though and I always will be happy to be known as English because people around here will accept me for what I am, not what they percieve the proverbial drunken british tourist to be.

But, again, I'll never discount using a particular service because its english just because I feel it will make me feel more Spanish by doing so

gallerie9

Intergration
Well when in Rome do as the Romans do ?

We have been embraced by the Spanish where we live we have been made to feel that we belong we have been accepted with open arms.

How do I explain this
We are renovating a house in the old quatre and lots of elderly ppl live around us.
Friday
I was asked to enter the house, where I was given a small parcel that contained two of the most lovely hand made gifts of soap holders made of hand made lace with our names in them.
Sunday
my other half was dragged in the local bar by two of the younger guys parents are our neigbours He spent two hours in there chatting football and the state of politics in Spain and was not allowed to buy a drink.
Monday
Maria Dolores came to the door we were both still working on the house with a parcel that contained my other half's fav chocolates she knew they were she must have asked Meila the lady who runs the shop in our street.
Today
Isabella who's husband asks my other half lots of times "you are my friend "
and has a lovely grandson Pedro who runs to greet us and loves to tell me about his day at school, called me in and she had made us a lovely cake wrapped and warm from the oven because we are lovely ppl.

We have been invited to all the local things we were late to a bar with some of our younger Spanish friends for the Feista they were ringing us where are you hurry up. We spent Xmas with them all the family gatherings

Intergration whats that we love living here its a different way of life.

I wonder where in the UK would two foreigners and thats what we are be treated the same.

What do we do to get this treatment.
I dont know, we smile, we try to learn the language and we chat in Spanish when we can, If we see one of the elderly ladies struggling with shopping we carry it for them or we put them in the car and take them home. If some one needs a hand we give it.

We are English, but I can honestly say we were not treated the same in the UK, and even some of our family are jealous of us.

We were both a bit apprehensive when we brought our house and started to renovate it The locals might be envious, not a bit they are all so pleased for us and for them selves they tell us we are making there houses worth more money,they are really pleased for us and each new thing we do they want to know about and tell us how well we are doing.

So intergration I am all for it.

Can I ask a question ?

Any one else any simlar experiances ???

That was only ment to be quick SORRY I have gabbled on a bit ·················

tbeanes

Hi @ all
I am living east of Barcelona in the catalan countryside in a small village.
When I moved there I realised that my catalan was and is as good as none existent.
People are going out of their way to speak in castellano with me which I did learn to speak .
I have asked to be spoken to in catalan, explaining that I would not learn it otherwise ...to no avail.
In this area are very few foreigners, probably because it is 25 km inland.
I have had no problems with integration....I get invited to birthday partys or invited out to go and have a drink somewhere.
In Andalucia I was told to watch it with those Catalans ..they were a strange inhospitable lot ...not so.
Nor did I believe they would be.
It is a very quiet part of Spain, which is what I was searching for when escaping from near Sevilla.
No noisy motorbikes and the driving is generally not so attention seaking.
Saludos T