Mitzyboy

I've seen various comments on various forums about expat Brits dislike of the Brits that come over to Spain and living as they do in the UK.

Not attempting to integrate into Spanish society
Drinking in British bars
Eating in British restaurants
Living in British enclaves
Or maybe just keeping themselves to themselves

Essentially, taking the easy way out ...... living their dream in the sun but not taking on the culture of their new chosen country of abode.

Now we've all seen the recent problems on TV of people who have maybe put Spain at complete arms length culturally and administratively and paid the price in some instances, but my point is this.

If someone wants to come from the UK and live like that then thats their choice and their problem. Expats from all around the world do it. Coming from Birmingham, there are large asian communities that live together (Sparkbrook, recently on TV), here in Spain there are enclaves of Germans, Dutch etc and in Calpe yesterday I noticed the large amount of German type restaurants. Its human nature I'm afraid and not just a brit thing. Do they beat themselves up about it ...... I think not.

I know the "Benidorm" argument, and God forbid that the whole of Spain should end up with lines of chip shops and pubs, but for the average Brit who decides they want the climate but are happy to keep it at that, who are we to judge? What do you think?

PS ....... I'm for integration myself and am doing my best! Just in case people misunderstood where I am coming from.

Lionda

I'm definitely for integration and although I am struggling with my Spanish...terrible accent I do want to communicate with Spanish people in their language. I recently ordered a small glass of beer in a bar and almost got myself a bottle of cava!!! Luckily someone nearby spoke Spanish and got me out of that one I also ordered a tea with milk in a cafe.....and got a cup of hot milk with a tea bag in It tasted ok though and we laughed about it. Must try harder

crispy

There is saying "moderation in everything" I find it works quite well, (except where good food is concerned, hence my larger than life size).

I have to agree with you Mitzyboy, I can't understand people who are so negative about buying and using British when aboard. OH and I keep ourselves to our on the main, we talk to Brits, Spanish, Germany any one but we like our own company on the whole, no matter what country we were to be living in, thats us. We go and eat where ever the fancy takes us shop
from where ever we want, and we have used British, German and Spanish tradespeople. People go to another country to live because they want to hopefully have a better life for themselves and there children, hence they have to work. When you look around the world at any minority community one thing most of them have in common is that they help and support each other.. Take the Irish people, my daughter is married to a lovely Irish boy and when they went to New Zealand to live for a year all they had was the name of an Irish bar in Auckland they landed in the morning went to the bar and by the afternoon they had somewhere to live and he had a job working in someone else bar. The same thing happened when his sister and her husband went. Oh how I wish the English could be so charitable to each other. Don't get me wrong I don't want to see what has happened on the other Costa's that's why we bought here in Chiclana. The world was once a big place but it no longer is and what we have to remember not everyone is in the lucky position not to have to work. Just recently we have had a few British place's
open up in the area and I am please to say that the Spanish do use them and also enjoy the food they have, we know of a few people that go for Sunday lunch every week because that's there way of accepting the Brits.

Off my soap box now...

Danemad

Obviously, as you say, it is a case of each to his own and to do as s/he wants. If people, whatever their nationality, want to come out here and be totally ignorant, screw their noses up at the tapas in a Spanish bar and say "urghhhh, what´s thaaaaaat?!!" in that annoying, blinkered, narrow minded way a lot of expats do then they can keep to themselves (which is why I said in the other thread that I avoid heavily British-populated locales because that is where these types tend to gather and I want nothing to do with them).

HOWEVER, if the expat isn´t going to even bother to attempt the basic in "hola´s, adios´ and como estás´ with the locals then s/he can´t then be surprised if s/he is treated with contempt and indifference by said locals. A Spanish friend of mine works for a ferreteria (ironmongers) and she says she gets Brits in who are most put out that she can´t speak any English. When she explains that it´s their job to learn her language as they are in her country they get quite huffy and say she should learn some English for her customers´sakes. Does that mean she should also learn German, Dutch, French, Chinese, Arabic etc? Does that mean shopkeepers in the UK should do also, for their customers? I think not! When in Rome....

Granted, it IS hard to learn a new language, especially if you are no longer in your first flush of youth, but everybody can TRY and at least learn the very basics to be able to greet people and to be able to order "one of those" from a shop etc, even if you don´t know the word of what you are after and have to point. An English guy in my village was at the butchers, bless him, and he tried to explain himself but didn´t know the word for pork and lamb and resorted to doing the sound effects. A laugh was had by all and the butcher was chuffed that he had made an effort. Says it all.

When I go abroad I always try and learn a few phrases and words... even when I went to Egypt a few years ago I learnt the arabic for several greetings, phrases and so on which I used all the time whilst I was there albeit for just 10 days. There are Brits who have been here for 10 YEARS and haven´t learnt as much.

And if it sounds as if I´m targeting the Brits it´s because we are the worst offenders. Most Spaniards I know who are in business say that the French and Germans know a lot more Spanish v the Brits here and try a lot harder.

I don´t blame expats for wanting to buy some English produce they miss, I don´t blame them wanting to go out with some other English friends for a chat or to have them round for dinner but at least try and shop in your local butchers and panederia and try to learn a new word a day... or a phrase a week even! If you keep practising it with the locals it WILL stick.. eventually!

And well done on those of you who ARE trying!

pwwm

Very few expats in this area so it is necessary that we speak Spanish, or at least try our best, I have made many friends amongst the locals and am included in their groups when they have family do's etc. We do not have English bars/ restaurants etc nor do we have British shops to buy British goods.

But we are 6kms from the sea with excellent views down the valley and would not change it for the world.

pwwm

crispy

Hi Danmad

I think when it comes down to it we are batting for the same team, my Spanish is for from good but I do try all the time, I find at my time of life it is getting harder to retain new information. The first time I went to the local meat market I asked for Kidneys my crabbing my side and saying Kidneys Kidneys, the butcher laugh so much but he knew what I wanted and now four years later he has never forgotten me. I also crinch when I see groups of English people being very loud in public places but sometime I think I as another English person makes to much of it and then I rationalize it by thinking because I am not a social person I find this alien to by personality.

When I bought this house one of 123 in a mainly Spanish street there were one maybe two other Brits living here, then an English Estate Agent moved in and offended everyone by offering to buy all the house's in the area because they wanted to form a Little Britain, well as you can imagine they only lived here for a very short time.

I'm afraid people are what they are and no matter where they live they will always be the same.

Danemad

You are very right and people will be people. The only thing you can do is carry on as you are and people will respect you for it. The trouble is Brits are renound for their unwilling attitude, because of the sorts we are talking about, and you can all get tarred with the same brush, making you ashamed to be British.

Like I said above, nobody minds mistakes, but they will mind total lack of effort.

I´m virtually fluent but even I made a mistake a year or so ago.. I was booking a hotel room for a travelling salesman... he wanted a "single"... without thinking I ordered him a "single" alright... as in a single person (ie not married!) I had translated it literally as in "soltero"! instead of ordering him an "individual" (ie individual in English too). The girl nearly wet herself laughing! Silly mistake, I just wasn´t thinking... she said "the price is the same if he is single or married you know"... it was funny

mikelincs

Took my wife to Drs this morning for results of blood tests, receptionist 'no comprendo' english, so I quite amazed myself with coming out with just what we were there for straight from my memory, and 'as far as I know' I got is right, anyway I got an answer I also understood. I often go with little crib phrases at the ready, but this time wasn't prepared.

Mitzyboy

I don't think people should be ashamed to British though ... Seems to me that many people who are here want to wash their hands of everything British just because they are in Spain.

The number of times I have seen people say "I avoid all things British like the plague". WHY?

You're British .... get used to it You will forever be an immigrant in Spain, you're heritage history is in Britain and all things British whether you like it or not.

Just because a number of us have taken the decision to spend all, or some, of our life now in another country doesn't mean to my mind that we have to become anti british ... theres a middle ground somewhere where we adhere to Spanish Law, accept and embrace Spain for what it is, but still be proud of our past and our country.

keithwalters

I´m not sure that people become anti-British because they moved to Spain. Probably more the other way around, first they become anti-British whilst still living in the UK, and therefore decided to move to Spain. Well, that was my case at least.

And I do unfortunately feel ashamed of my nationality when I visit the coastal areas. If you see someone who is badly dressed, drunk, ignorant or rude then odds are that they are British. Why? why? why do they do it?

As for "you´re British - get used to it, and you´ll forever be an immigrant", well that´s only if you choose to keep your British passport. A few more years and I will qualify to change my nationality. I´m stuck with my heritage though, and I don´t think I will every completely erradicate my foreign accent when I speak. But I do the best I can given my circumstances.

Mitzyboy

Wow ... thats a big step to take .... I don't think I could do it. Someone must have really p!ssed you off Is it the British in Britain, or is it the country in general the way its run?

I do take your point on the coastal areas, the brit on holiday is not always a wonderful thing to behold, but cheap drink and sun don't mix too well.
But to be fair I've been in such situations with other nationalities as well. But yes, the brits do it "best"

keithwalters

It´s the whole package that I don´t really like to be honest... people, place, culture (lack of), economy, politics, cuisine, etc. The things I don´t like about the UK far outnumber the things I do like and I would go as far as saying that I took the decision to emigrate when I was about 13/14 years old. I had to wait a few years though (about 15!) before I was financially able to make the move.

Spain isn´t perfect either - I don´t like the political situation for example, but as long as the pluses outweigh the minuses then I shall stay put.

As for changing nationality, that is motivated in part by my not feeling any connection whatsoever with the UK, and in part for Anne who would like to enter competitions but is currently excluded from doing so by her non-spanish nationality. Residency doesn´t count for anything when it comes to competing!

Keith

pwwm

Not sure if the reference anti British was referring to me due to my comment of being no bars etc. But I am far from it, just wanted to say how it is around here.
Proud to be English but enjoy it here with the locals, yes we do have British friends but also as previously stated a shed load of Spanish ones.

Chill out and enjoy the life style.

pwwm

Danemad

You took the words right out of my mouth. I grew up in Spain and had little knowledge of and no opinion of the British until I went back aged 15 and hated it! I saw the football hooligans, the drunks, the yobbos the embarassing holiday makers and so on.

I came back here a few years ago and what did I see from some Brits? Much of the same! So how can I not be ashamed at times? And as far as getting used to it... why should I?

Danemad

It took me so long to add my last post due to phone calls that 3 more posts had been added in the meantime!

I do like some things about England... I like our history and I guess some of what made Britain great many, many decades ago.

I win though Keith.. it took me 23 years to finally be able to move back here!!!! Mainly due to considering other people before my own wants but nevertheless...

And, as you say, the plusses here outweigh the huge negatives in the UK.. the utter disrespect, attitudes, vandalism, crime and so on are just for beginners. A kid kicked an empty plastic bottle across the street from my house just the other day, he was about 13 I guess, it rolled and ended up in front of my house. I told him to go and pick it up and throw it away. He did without any argument, face pulling or swearing (obviously he was a Spanish lad). You can only imagine the sort of reaction that would have produced if I had been back in the UK saying the same thing to an English kid. I probably would still be in the process of having it surgically removed! Am I wrong or am I right? Yes.. you all know it!