the end of the euro in Spain
#16
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Re: the end of the euro in Spain
I think it would be a positive move if the EU kicked out the UK as no politician will have the guts to pull us out. What good has it ever done for the UK! The long term intention of France and Germany has always been to strip London of it's Financial centre and that is why Cameron had to veto the new treaty.
The euro never worked, they have just been living on borrowed time. Even now they are fudging. Strange when the euro was set-up they never had any contingency for it failing
Just seen a comment in Spanish newspaper saying let the British stay on their Island. They only want the advantages of Europe not the inconveniences....not like Spain then who gets more out of the EU than they pay in and was asking yesterday for aid to pay off their debts....couldn't make it up, could you.
The euro never worked, they have just been living on borrowed time. Even now they are fudging. Strange when the euro was set-up they never had any contingency for it failing
Just seen a comment in Spanish newspaper saying let the British stay on their Island. They only want the advantages of Europe not the inconveniences....not like Spain then who gets more out of the EU than they pay in and was asking yesterday for aid to pay off their debts....couldn't make it up, could you.
Last edited by jackytoo; Dec 9th 2011 at 10:33 am.
#17
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 827
Re: the end of the euro in Spain
The banks wouldnt revert back to their currency if the pesata were to return. They're international and the chances are so would any mortgage repayments be. So earning in pesatas and paying a mortgage in "the euro" or whatever other currency the international world chose to use would be virtually impossible and therefore wouldnt work. Think about it. Without exception, all banks are international. they are financed by the IMF. They could hardly allow themselves to be in a position of running a currency that isnt worth anything - it would be like them lending and spending monopoly money! How would they compete!
Sorry, I know what you're saying, but that cant and wont happen - the opposite is far more likely. Then there will be trouble
Jo xxx
Sorry, I know what you're saying, but that cant and wont happen - the opposite is far more likely. Then there will be trouble
Jo xxx
If Spain reverted to the peseta then there's not a thing the banks can do about it.
Mortgage holders in Spain took out loans in the local currency, be that the Euro, the Pesetas or the leaf. Surely the bank would have to take the haircut, otherwise there would be riots.
#18
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Location: Mallorca
Posts: 19,367
Re: the end of the euro in Spain
That's the root of the problem. All the members want the benefits without the contributions. That's why Germany is running the show. It made the biggest contribution and has the most to lose. France is a close second, but needs to step a bit more lightly than Germany.. in truth, France is in the same boat with Italy and Spain (to a lesser degree). They also want the benefits...
#19
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,368
Re: the end of the euro in Spain
I think that's a case of "be careful what you wish for!" I could imagine the Spanish tourist industry if Brits did stay on their island. Plus if UK did come out, the Spanish could decommission half of their fishing fleet, we'd have our 200 mile fishing limit back. Like you, I'm of the opinion it's cost us an absolute fortune to belong to the club, every year we've paid in far more than we ever gotten out (the complete opposite of Spain), we'd be far better out of it. Maybe when Spain started to pay it's way, to be in deficit (that time will surely come) it might have a different viewpoint. If they are happy to be governed my Merkosy, to have their tax and financial matters decided by them, let them carry on.
#20
Joined: Jun 2011
Location: In the middle of 10million Olive Trees
Posts: 12,053
Re: the end of the euro in Spain
Just look at Ireland, a few years ago the Celtic Tiger, the shining example to the world. Now, broke.
and that happened inside the eurozone, so how much can you rely on the rest of the 17 (or 27) to not end up as the bob weight on the end of the pendulum in a similar manner.
Neither Germany nor France can be that squeeky clean, no matter how much Merkozy say it is everyone else's fault. This is a union and like partnerships all members are jointly and severally liable for the actions of the others.
They entered a new currency they wanted control over but didnt exercise that control, allowing people to join the partnership using known fraudulent figures and then took no action against them.
If you took in a lodger and left you wallet lying around and he took your money whose fault is it ??
and that happened inside the eurozone, so how much can you rely on the rest of the 17 (or 27) to not end up as the bob weight on the end of the pendulum in a similar manner.
Neither Germany nor France can be that squeeky clean, no matter how much Merkozy say it is everyone else's fault. This is a union and like partnerships all members are jointly and severally liable for the actions of the others.
They entered a new currency they wanted control over but didnt exercise that control, allowing people to join the partnership using known fraudulent figures and then took no action against them.
If you took in a lodger and left you wallet lying around and he took your money whose fault is it ??
#21
Re: the end of the euro in Spain
Playing Devil's Advocate here....if Britain did opt out of the EU......where would that leave all of us?
We wouldn't be EU citizens.....so what would our status be here?
We wouldn't be EU citizens.....so what would our status be here?
#22
Joined: Jun 2011
Location: In the middle of 10million Olive Trees
Posts: 12,053
Re: the end of the euro in Spain
BUT the uk will not leave the EU, we have put too much in, have too many physical and financial connections.
We just need to sort out the Merkozy bullies.
Last edited by Domino; Dec 9th 2011 at 11:44 am.
#23
squeaky clean
Joined: Mar 2010
Location: Spain 4th feb 08 - October 11, now flits batck and forth from sunny Worthing
Posts: 1,576
Re: the end of the euro in Spain
The banks have to abide by the rules of the country they are trading in.
If Spain reverted to the peseta then there's not a thing the banks can do about it.
Mortgage holders in Spain took out loans in the local currency, be that the Euro, the Pesetas or the leaf. Surely the bank would have to take the haircut, otherwise there would be riots.
If Spain reverted to the peseta then there's not a thing the banks can do about it.
Mortgage holders in Spain took out loans in the local currency, be that the Euro, the Pesetas or the leaf. Surely the bank would have to take the haircut, otherwise there would be riots.
If they did that they'd go under! Just one small problem of even bigger ones if Spain were to go back to the paseta
jo xxx
#24
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Joined: Dec 2006
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Posts: 8,824
Re: the end of the euro in Spain
Spain is very positive about the EU but I wonder how it will feel if (when) they are ordered to raise the VAT rate to 23% whilst Germany has 19%
As Domino says they have been fudging the figures and moving the goalposts for years and now it has caught up.
As Domino says they have been fudging the figures and moving the goalposts for years and now it has caught up.
#25
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Location: Spain 4th feb 08 - October 11, now flits batck and forth from sunny Worthing
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Re: the end of the euro in Spain
Yes there would of course be downsides for Spain but surely a devalued peseta would immediately make Spanish property and new home building very attractive as regards other currency countries and also tourism and this be a shot in the arm for these 2 sections of the economy. Also, exports from Spain would be more attractive to the rest of the world.
Disadvantages of course, but surely some positives?
Disadvantages of course, but surely some positives?
Jo xxx
#26
Re: the end of the euro in Spain
I think that would just create a bigger black market , the only surefire way to collect revenue is fuel tax , everyone hates it , probably because its almost impossible to fiddle.
#27
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Re: the end of the euro in Spain
Jo xxx
#28
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Location: Mallorca
Posts: 19,367
Re: the end of the euro in Spain
OK, if Spain went back to the Peseta, the first order of business would be to devalue it by about half, putting a lot more cash into the market, cutting the ridiculously high public wages & benefits, greatly cut public & private debt, and making Spanish goods, property, and tourism much more competitive on the global stage. Same with Italy, Greece, Portugal, Ireland....
As long as they are in the Euro, they simply can't do that, and so the burden falls on those Eurozone members who have the lowest deficits (Germany, France, NL). Which explains why they are resisting the obvious solution.
By the way, neither Germany or France or NL are within 3%.. they all are in violation of the treaty. But let's not bring that up at this crucial point... :-)
So, they can either:
a) Dissolve the Euro or b) keep it just between Germany, France, NL and kick out everybody else, or c) simply print more of it (de-value it). None are painless (for those in control). Some are just less painful than others.
These are really the only options. One of those will be the result at the end of the day. Which do you think it will be?
#29
Banned
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 5,008
Re: the end of the euro in Spain
I saw on the news the other night that they are checking for "red Diesel" on street patrols, a sign of the times and prices hurting I guess.
#30
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