JLFS

More or less what I think, but I just got my post in a nanosecond before you, both at 10.02.

pain-in-spain

As the OP of this thread which goes back a couple of months now, I thought I would write an update and thank all of you who contributed at the time.

I decided to wait and see what happened with my boss's attitude regards to contracts and SS payments. Back in early June, we started discussing holiday entitlement in the light of not getting anywhere with the contract - the boss still insisted we we are all self employed and refused to budge on that. We did however, manage to challenge him on public holidays and after much fighting he gave in and said we could have Spanish and Catalan public hols plus 20 personal days, which is the basic right anyway. We felt at least a little pleased we got something at the time.

There have now been developments. Last week my bosses (husband and wife) called a meeting with me and my colleague (the others were working at home and work from abroad). We were told that due to lack of sales (it's an apartment rental online company) we should start looking for another job and they were winding the business down and would file for bankruptcy! This was a big shock as they are very settled here, kids go to a paying English school and they took on a 5 year rental contract in January in the house which is also their office. Personally I don't believe them and think they will continue and keep on the programmers. My colleague has already found another job (he'd been offered it the day before we were told and it was pure luck), he will not take his salary this month. My boss told me I could keep on working and see what could be done to save the business and work from home, which I have done many times during my time with the company. I am doing what I can.

I am paid a basic pus sales commission, the last couple of months it has been very low so it's true things are not great. I asked my boss if he could see his way to pay me two months salary as I have no rights to benefits due to him not giving me a contract and he said flatly no. I hope he is honorable enough to give me my monthly salary end of this month and as a good will gesture offer me my colleagues salary which he now has in the kitty. I have worked hard for him.

What I wonder now is if I were to go to the job inspectors if anything can be done in retrospect. The only proof I have of working for him is my monthly salary which he pays from his offshore account, he thinks it doesn't count as it's from the UK even though the company is registered here. I wonder if anything could be done in retrospect and what might be involved from my side. I am thinking now that I really have nothing to lose as my job is going anyway, and at the least I can try to get back what I should have been paid in terms of social security. What I wonder is if I would have to back pay tax on my earnings, because if so it would be better to walk away. I am really not sure what is best.

I am not in a position to go back to the UK yet, things are getting much worse here and we can't sell our flat and renting it out could take a few months to organise, in the meantime I will have no income at all and it's the worst time to look for a job, even if there were any!

Any ideas?? Thanks!

Domino

immediate thoughts
* They surely wouldnt have taken on a new rental when it was obvious the business wasnt doing well - but that is their problem not yours

* You say you are being paid "basic" - surely that is a fixed wage denoting employment ?? Commission is on top of, usually to pad out a poor salary but only based on your extra efforts. do you have any wage slips for this ??

still think you are employed but it is going to take alot of sorting to get that one laid to rest
have you been to the local employment office and put your facts and figures on the table to them ??

even if your employers go bust in reality instead of the pretence I think they are giving you that isnt your worry.

hope things work out ok for you
kr
Dom

cricketman

I thought you were declaring as self-employed?

If you've also not been declaring your income, even in cash, then it may be tricky as you'd be implicating yourself.

If I were you I'd dob him in, but anonymously

pain-in-spain

Thanks Dom. My basic is 1200 euros plus a percentage of revenue, it is a proper fixed and full time salary with my hours and work place dictated by the boss, I am 100% employed, not self employed. If you read back to my earlier comments, here in Spain it's called Falso autonomo and the employer tries to get their staff to pretend to be self employed and pay their own contributions and get away with huge amounts of social security payments. Obviously I have no payslips, just a wire transfer into my bank every month with the name of the company on the statement. I have a written document from the company which made me agree to the effect that I would take my own responsibility to be self employed, but it's not a legal document and the address included in the document mentions a UK address which is just a post box for the business, there are no staff there, all are here.

Cricketman, thanks. To answer your question, no I have not been declaring my income as I cannot declare an income if I am not in the social security system, which I have refused to do as I am employed but paid in cash. I am one of a great percentage of the work force here in Spain in this situation. I read last year the government gave an amnesty to those employers employing staff illegally in order that they put them in the ss system and avoided huge fines, this ended at a certain date and the fines for this crime were then raised, the authorities rely on people like me to point out these employers as what they are doing is costing millions to the economy. I have also read on Spanish forums that the employee being paid in cash is not committing the crime, and the bigger fish to fry is the employer who is paying the lion share of the SS contribution, not the individual.

I need to investigate further, I could shop him without giving my details but I have heard that they don't accept a report without a name and DNI. Need to give this a bit more thought!

ionie

You said that you only have your wages as proof of employment but you should have a copy of the dodgy contract that you signed.
If you could prove that you believed without a doubt that you were an employee and that your contributions were being paid then you could be entitled to unemployment benefits although your employer didn't pay them. This is only if you can prove that you were not in collusion with the employer and that's not true as you know that he considered you to be self employed.
I wonder if this guy has covered all angles and you're not going to be able to prove that you were an employee.
As you knew what was going on might I suggest that you walk away and put it down to experience.
Good luck. I do sympathize, I could tell you some horror stories but they won't help you.

Domino

as I believe it was agreed earlier - you are in a mess !!

if it is falso autonomo then you will probably drag a number of others into the row, past and present, who would rather not be involved, who like you would have difficulty in paying any/all back taxes.
it then becomes a question of morals or revenge. Presumably the latter.
ISTR you were advised to just get another job and forget about it.

If you want to shop him, can you get in touch with a local union official who will do it for you ?

cricketman

Yes there are many false autonomos, but the point is that these people normally actually are registered as autonomo and paying their social security payments

But you are right, the fraud system is pragmatic and would go after the employer especially as they take the view that the employee is being exploited