embargo on house
Jan 10th 2011, 9:32 am
#16
FreeThinker
Joined: Nov 2009
Location: the moors and levels
Posts: 9,702
Re: embargo on house
Patsywhitehair, you should take this issue very seriously. The term "Real Estate" comes from Spanish "Royal Property". In other words, this property does not belong to you but to the Royal - that means Spanish state. They require now 5000 EUR.
You have two choices: to pay 5000 EUR right away and avoid further waste of time,
or
b) to try to achieve some deal and reduce that amount.
Everything else would be a question of techicality and this would not depend on you. The real owner of your property (Spanish state) will decide what is the most appropriate way to confront you. And, in that fight you will lose the shirt...
Englishman's house is NOT his castle because it belongs to Spanish state.
Something similar is also actual in the USA. The name "Real Estate" confirms that the property does not belong to you. There is even one movie "House of Sand and Fog" which illustates how you can lose the house if you do not pay the YEARLY property tax.
You have two choices: to pay 5000 EUR right away and avoid further waste of time,
or
b) to try to achieve some deal and reduce that amount.
Everything else would be a question of techicality and this would not depend on you. The real owner of your property (Spanish state) will decide what is the most appropriate way to confront you. And, in that fight you will lose the shirt...
Englishman's house is NOT his castle because it belongs to Spanish state.
Something similar is also actual in the USA. The name "Real Estate" confirms that the property does not belong to you. There is even one movie "House of Sand and Fog" which illustates how you can lose the house if you do not pay the YEARLY property tax.
Jan 10th 2011, 10:06 am
#18
Forum Regular
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 182
Re: embargo on house
I agree with jimeneto. As he simply said "they will attach a charge to the deeds in some way and the owner will not be able to sell the house until the tax/fine is paid".
This clearly explains the situation of the owner and the house as his liability.
As jimeneto said, the owner can not even get rid of that liability easily - before the tax/fine is paid.
Everything else is the waste of time - or load of complete b**** as jimeneto said.
This clearly explains the situation of the owner and the house as his liability.
As jimeneto said, the owner can not even get rid of that liability easily - before the tax/fine is paid.
Everything else is the waste of time - or load of complete b**** as jimeneto said.
Jan 10th 2011, 10:31 am
#19
Banned
Joined: Feb 2008
Location: Vejer de la Fra., Cadiz
Posts: 7,653
Re: embargo on house
Or, as someone else said once,
'We are to the gods as flies are to small boys. They kill us for their sport.'
Change the word 'gods' to 'government' and it says it all really....
'We are to the gods as flies are to small boys. They kill us for their sport.'
Change the word 'gods' to 'government' and it says it all really....
Jan 10th 2011, 11:17 am
#20
On the road again.
Joined: Aug 2008
Location: On Top of the World
Posts: 17,507
Re: embargo on house
Phew, thank God for that !
I was half expecting King Carlos and the Mrs coming to my door any minute, all ready to take over.
Doubt if they'd fancy it much though, in comparison to their own pad.
Jan 10th 2011, 11:56 am
#21
Concierge
Joined: May 2006
Location: ex ex-pat, in Taunton
Posts: 27,219
Re: embargo on house
Home ownership in some limited number of countries is associated with certain privileges: no property tax, no capital gain tax, status of "free man", protection of state intrusion without court order etc...
The residents of such countries face serious trouble when they move to some sunny countries, which are usually without sustainable industry and where the property is regarded as the main source of income for that state.
It is not fair to claim that the rules are everywhere the same and that non payment of tax will put someone in the prison.
I think it would be fair to warn the residents of the country with property privileges that they are going to face completely different situation abroad. The home which is considered an asset in their own country would turn into serious liability in other, sunny country. They should also be aware that they may not get rid of that liability easily... depending on the laws in specific country. In Florida, you may send the key of the house back to the bank. But in Spain or in Dubai, it would not be possible.
For patsywhitehair the house in a sunny country caused a problem and it would be wrong to tell him it is easy and that the authorities are slow in pursuing that money... He is in the system where his house is considered as an important source of income for the sate, and he should do everything to sort out this issue quickly.
The residents of such countries face serious trouble when they move to some sunny countries, which are usually without sustainable industry and where the property is regarded as the main source of income for that state.
It is not fair to claim that the rules are everywhere the same and that non payment of tax will put someone in the prison.
I think it would be fair to warn the residents of the country with property privileges that they are going to face completely different situation abroad. The home which is considered an asset in their own country would turn into serious liability in other, sunny country. They should also be aware that they may not get rid of that liability easily... depending on the laws in specific country. In Florida, you may send the key of the house back to the bank. But in Spain or in Dubai, it would not be possible.
For patsywhitehair the house in a sunny country caused a problem and it would be wrong to tell him it is easy and that the authorities are slow in pursuing that money... He is in the system where his house is considered as an important source of income for the sate, and he should do everything to sort out this issue quickly.
Patsy, can I suggest to PM SueG from this site as she works for a legal firm in Spain which have English and Spanish lawyers.
Ignore Kazic as he/she is talking a load of tosh.
Jan 10th 2011, 12:27 pm
#22
Forum Regular
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 182
Re: embargo on house
Kazic, unless you live in Spain, or have expert knowledge of the legal system regarding property ownership and taxes in Spain, and not any other country in the world, then you should not be making the comments you are regarding this matter. The only real answer is to get legal advice on this matter from lawyers in Spain
Patsy, can I suggest to PM SueG from this site as she works for a legal firm in Spain which have English and Spanish lawyers.
Ignore Kazic as he/she is talking a load of tosh.
Patsy, can I suggest to PM SueG from this site as she works for a legal firm in Spain which have English and Spanish lawyers.
Ignore Kazic as he/she is talking a load of tosh.
a) He got a high tax bill of 5000 EUR
b) He heard that the authority "may put an embargo" on his house if the bill is not paid
c) He asked what this would be....
Those are the elementary issues and I assumed that patsywhitehair would easily lose his fight against administration if he is not in command of such elementary things. I have suggested that he either pay the bill or try to find some agreement.
Now, there is a suggestion that Patsy beginns the serious fight and contact the office with Spanish and English lawyers. Well done!!! We are talking about the 5000 EUR bill. What will be the bill of the lawers and what is the outcome Patsy may expect after such a procedure? What is the outcome the lawyers could promisse to gain him/her as a satisfied client?
If the lawyer requires payment of the amount X,
Patsy should be sure that the tax bill would be decreased at least for the amount X. Otherwise, the losses of patsywhitehair would be only increased.
Last edited by kazic; Jan 10th 2011 at 12:57 pm.
Jan 10th 2011, 12:38 pm
#23
MODERATOR
Joined: Mar 2007
Location: Costa Valencia
Posts: 14,800
Re: embargo on house
Patsy...I totally agree with Mike, PM Sue G she is really helpful and has the best information at her fingertips.
Rosemary
Rosemary
Jan 10th 2011, 12:43 pm
#24
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Feb 2007
Location: Land of no recession
Posts: 10,718
Re: embargo on house
Now, there is a suggestion that Patsy beginns the serious fight and contact the office with Spanish and English lawyers. Well done!!! We are talking about the 5000 EUR bill. What will be the bill of the lawers and what is the outcome Patsy may expect after such a procedure? What is the outcome the lawyers could promisse to gain him/her as a satisfied client?
I was given advice which I followed.
This was my first contact with this lawyer although we share friends.
Total cost €0
Also he advised me that it is possible to sell property with an embargo on it, however the purchaser would be well advised to have the matter sorted before purchase. Certainly I would not purchase property with an embargo on it unless there was some serious financial advantage.
The lawyer was recently rewarded for his advice as I used him for another matter.
Jan 10th 2011, 1:09 pm
#25
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 835
Re: embargo on house
You can only "fight" an embargo on your property if you can prove that the amount you payed was covered in full by a chq or bank transfer.The Hacienda will check you bank accounts for any cash amounts withdrawn for a period before and after the date you signed.I had the same happen to me two years ago and my lawyer (for free) advised me to pay.Also be aware that the amount outstanding will increase with interest.
Jan 10th 2011, 1:11 pm
#26
Banned
Joined: Feb 2008
Location: Vejer de la Fra., Cadiz
Posts: 7,653
Re: embargo on house
A lawyer's advice is seldom worthless, if only for the peace of mind that it brings in knowing you are following the correct path.
Jan 10th 2011, 1:34 pm
#27
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Mar 2009
Location: Valencia
Posts: 1,164
Re: embargo on house
hi, recently posted that a bit of land i purchased , the tax man has decided that it was worth more than i bought it for and has sent me a real hefty bill for 5.000 euros. thing is somebody told me if i dont pay the tax people may put an embargo on my house. what is this please....... what would happen
You need the services of a good gestor.
Jan 10th 2011, 1:36 pm
#28
Forum Regular
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 182
Re: embargo on house
The greates value of BritishExpats is that it offers different points of view what can help someone to find a do-it-yourself solution.
Of course, if someone offeres a free lawyer (especially English speaking in foreign country) this would be the different story. I assume that patsywhitehair does not have access to free lawyer and that this was the reason for the original posting.
We are talking about 5000 Euro bill which could make a lot of trouble if not paid. What would be the best outcome for patsywhitehair?
I believe nothing else but a bill reduction.
How big reduction? To 3000 Euro? I doubt that Spanish tax authorities would make such a wrong valuation. May be 4000 Euro?? Bill of 4000 Euro would mean savings of 1000 Euro for patsywhitehair.
So, patsywhitehair will indeed need a very good English speaking lawyer with Spanish experience who will do his best to fight for 1000 Euro not charging her a penny. The good, bi-lingual lawyers usually prefer tougher, and more valuable problems.
If patsywhitehair indeed decides to go ahaed and fight for 1000 Euro, there is a risk that court costs would be higher. It is to be expected that some official translator would be also involved. Besides that, tax authorities can easily find additional issues against patsywhitehair.... just for the sake of not losing the face. If the trial is lost, I doubt that the lawyer of the another side would forgive patsywhitehair his fees and daily rates.
Of course, if someone offeres a free lawyer (especially English speaking in foreign country) this would be the different story. I assume that patsywhitehair does not have access to free lawyer and that this was the reason for the original posting.
We are talking about 5000 Euro bill which could make a lot of trouble if not paid. What would be the best outcome for patsywhitehair?
I believe nothing else but a bill reduction.
How big reduction? To 3000 Euro? I doubt that Spanish tax authorities would make such a wrong valuation. May be 4000 Euro?? Bill of 4000 Euro would mean savings of 1000 Euro for patsywhitehair.
So, patsywhitehair will indeed need a very good English speaking lawyer with Spanish experience who will do his best to fight for 1000 Euro not charging her a penny. The good, bi-lingual lawyers usually prefer tougher, and more valuable problems.
If patsywhitehair indeed decides to go ahaed and fight for 1000 Euro, there is a risk that court costs would be higher. It is to be expected that some official translator would be also involved. Besides that, tax authorities can easily find additional issues against patsywhitehair.... just for the sake of not losing the face. If the trial is lost, I doubt that the lawyer of the another side would forgive patsywhitehair his fees and daily rates.
Last edited by kazic; Jan 10th 2011 at 2:04 pm.
Jan 10th 2011, 1:42 pm
#29
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 443
Re: embargo on house
Real Estate refers to land and fixed improvements such as fences building etc.
"Real" has its origin as belonging to the King. It was introduced into England along with feudalism by the Normans and thus into English.
I think this was raised in this forum a couple of years ago.
Jim
"Real" has its origin as belonging to the King. It was introduced into England along with feudalism by the Normans and thus into English.
I think this was raised in this forum a couple of years ago.
Jim
Jan 10th 2011, 2:08 pm
#30
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Mar 2009
Location: Valencia
Posts: 1,164
Re: embargo on house
So, patsywhitehair will indeed need a very good English speaking lawyer with Spanish experience who will do his best to fight for 1000 Euro not charging her a penny.
If patsywhitehair indeed decides to go ahaed and fight for 1000 Euro, there is a risk that court costs would be higher. It is to be expected that some official translator would be also involved. Besides that, tax authorities can easily find additional issues against patsywhitehair.... just for the sake of not losing the face. If the trial is lost, I doubt that the lawyer of the another side would forgive patsywhitehair his fees and daily rates.
If patsywhitehair indeed decides to go ahaed and fight for 1000 Euro, there is a risk that court costs would be higher. It is to be expected that some official translator would be also involved. Besides that, tax authorities can easily find additional issues against patsywhitehair.... just for the sake of not losing the face. If the trial is lost, I doubt that the lawyer of the another side would forgive patsywhitehair his fees and daily rates.
She doesnt need a lawyer, she needs a good local Gestor.
This matter is not dealt with in a Court.