Declaring worldwide assets to Hacienda
Jan 30th 2013, 1:46 pm
#46
Senior Moment
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: On the edge
Posts: 20,460
Re: Declaring worldwide assets to Hacienda
With minimum penalties of €10,000 imposing fines is likely to be more profitable than collecting taxes. So little publicity about the new requirements means people, who would never dream of committing tax fraud, may be caught out simply because they do not report their home outside Spain.
The new law abolishes the presumption of innocence; it creates an offshore offence that has no onshore equivalent (Spain with the largest black economy in the EU); it contravenes EU privacy law; it disproportionately affects foreign residents (more likely to own assets outside Spain); it departs from the EU consensus approach to tackling fraud; it potentially provides a mine of information for kidnappers and extortionists and it makes Spain a less attractive country in which to take up residence.
Apart from that it´s fine.
The new law abolishes the presumption of innocence; it creates an offshore offence that has no onshore equivalent (Spain with the largest black economy in the EU); it contravenes EU privacy law; it disproportionately affects foreign residents (more likely to own assets outside Spain); it departs from the EU consensus approach to tackling fraud; it potentially provides a mine of information for kidnappers and extortionists and it makes Spain a less attractive country in which to take up residence.
Apart from that it´s fine.
Jan 30th 2013, 3:24 pm
#47
Joined: Jun 2006
Location: Granada Costa
Posts: 10,899
Re: Declaring worldwide assets to Hacienda
So do I but who is going to challenge it?
Incidentally the situation is potentially worse than I thought as it now transpires that the only way you can complete the declaration is online and to do that you need a "digital certificate" and of course everyone has one of those dont they
Having looked in detail at the procedure it also looks extremely complicated.
The alternative is to go to a gestor/financial advisor who will do it for you for a significant fee. I am guessing here but €100 per person wouldn't surprise me!
Incidentally the situation is potentially worse than I thought as it now transpires that the only way you can complete the declaration is online and to do that you need a "digital certificate" and of course everyone has one of those dont they
Having looked in detail at the procedure it also looks extremely complicated.
The alternative is to go to a gestor/financial advisor who will do it for you for a significant fee. I am guessing here but €100 per person wouldn't surprise me!
Jan 30th 2013, 5:18 pm
#48
Retired and loving it!
Joined: Sep 2007
Location: Ontinyent - Valencia region (campo)
Posts: 5,159
Re: Declaring worldwide assets to Hacienda
So do I but who is going to challenge it?
Incidentally the situation is potentially worse than I thought as it now transpires that the only way you can complete the declaration is online and to do that you need a "digital certificate" and of course everyone has one of those dont they
Having looked in detail at the procedure it also looks extremely complicated.
The alternative is to go to a gestor/financial advisor who will do it for you for a significant fee. I am guessing here but €100 per person wouldn't surprise me!
Incidentally the situation is potentially worse than I thought as it now transpires that the only way you can complete the declaration is online and to do that you need a "digital certificate" and of course everyone has one of those dont they
Having looked in detail at the procedure it also looks extremely complicated.
The alternative is to go to a gestor/financial advisor who will do it for you for a significant fee. I am guessing here but €100 per person wouldn't surprise me!
Also, is the form now available?
Thanks
Jan 30th 2013, 7:40 pm
#49
Joined: Jun 2006
Location: Granada Costa
Posts: 10,899
Re: Declaring worldwide assets to Hacienda
It's actually very simple.
The process is organized by the Spanish Royal Mint.
http://www.cert.fnmt.es/index.php?cha=cit&sec=4&lang=en
You go to their website and apply. You give your NIE and it downloads a long series of numbers. You print this out and take it to a variety of Government offices or your town hall who are connected to the overall system. They check your ID from your passport and submit that data to the central computer.
They give you a load of paperwork (completely irrelevant) and you go home, sign back onto the same site and it will download the certificate onto your PC.
When you access a site that requires the certificate it automatically pops up, you click to confirm that you want to use it and it then authenticates that it is indeed you.
Spanish national have this data encoded on their ID cards and have a card reader on their PC which they can use to verify their ID.
The certificate is valid for 5 years and you can renew it online as long as you do it before it expires.
It's a great system and can be used on a lot of sites. For example I use it to make an appointment with my doctor without having to key in all my personal data. It also gives you access to options that you don't normally have such as changing your personal data and even changing your doctor.
The process is organized by the Spanish Royal Mint.
http://www.cert.fnmt.es/index.php?cha=cit&sec=4&lang=en
You go to their website and apply. You give your NIE and it downloads a long series of numbers. You print this out and take it to a variety of Government offices or your town hall who are connected to the overall system. They check your ID from your passport and submit that data to the central computer.
They give you a load of paperwork (completely irrelevant) and you go home, sign back onto the same site and it will download the certificate onto your PC.
When you access a site that requires the certificate it automatically pops up, you click to confirm that you want to use it and it then authenticates that it is indeed you.
Spanish national have this data encoded on their ID cards and have a card reader on their PC which they can use to verify their ID.
The certificate is valid for 5 years and you can renew it online as long as you do it before it expires.
It's a great system and can be used on a lot of sites. For example I use it to make an appointment with my doctor without having to key in all my personal data. It also gives you access to options that you don't normally have such as changing your personal data and even changing your doctor.
Jan 30th 2013, 7:45 pm
#50
Banned
Joined: Dec 2006
Location: Living in a good place
Posts: 8,824
Re: Declaring worldwide assets to Hacienda
It's actually very simple.
You go to their website and apply. You give your NIE and it downloads a long series of numbers. You print this out and take it to a variety of Government offices or your town hall who are connected to the overall system. They check your ID from your passport and submit that data to the central computer.
They give you a load of paperwork (completely irrelevant) and you go home, sign back onto the same site and it will download the certificate onto your PC.
Spanish national have this data encoded on their ID cards and have a card reader on their PC which they can use to verify their ID.
You go to their website and apply. You give your NIE and it downloads a long series of numbers. You print this out and take it to a variety of Government offices or your town hall who are connected to the overall system. They check your ID from your passport and submit that data to the central computer.
They give you a load of paperwork (completely irrelevant) and you go home, sign back onto the same site and it will download the certificate onto your PC.
Spanish national have this data encoded on their ID cards and have a card reader on their PC which they can use to verify their ID.
Jan 30th 2013, 8:40 pm
#51
Joined: Jun 2006
Location: Granada Costa
Posts: 10,899
Re: Declaring worldwide assets to Hacienda
It's no more difficult than signing on the Padron and much easier than applying for a health card.
Jan 30th 2013, 10:07 pm
#52
Joined: Jun 2011
Location: In the middle of 10million Olive Trees
Posts: 12,053
Re: Declaring worldwide assets to Hacienda
went to the big office in Granada, they promised it would be with me in 10 days max. That was 3 weeks ago.
Still not arrived.
Luckily at the present I am not "ill" just need repeat prescriptions for hypertension - now why have I got that......
Jan 31st 2013, 5:55 am
#53
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 977
Re: Declaring worldwide assets to Hacienda
Here slightly off post but please how does one apply for a Health card and what is a NIR? We had an E121 on leaving the UK and now Newcastle say that we will be given a S1 when we leave France. Can only apply one month before leaving France.
So we have a nice bit of paper from Newcastle what please do we do with it on arriving in Javea? Going to look as well as to the concept of private medical insurance. Apparently Sanitas (is part of BUPA) which now in the UK is the Spire Group
Lots and lots to do before one can settle down and enjoy one's retirement!
So we have a nice bit of paper from Newcastle what please do we do with it on arriving in Javea? Going to look as well as to the concept of private medical insurance. Apparently Sanitas (is part of BUPA) which now in the UK is the Spire Group
Lots and lots to do before one can settle down and enjoy one's retirement!
Jan 31st 2013, 6:10 am
#54
Retired and loving it!
Joined: Sep 2007
Location: Ontinyent - Valencia region (campo)
Posts: 5,159
Re: Declaring worldwide assets to Hacienda
now that is hard, been waiting for mine for 12m, local medical centre kept saying "its on its way" whilst doctor keeps asking what is the matter with my application.
went to the big office in Granada, they promised it would be with me in 10 days max. That was 3 weeks ago.
Still not arrived.
Luckily at the present I am not "ill" just need repeat prescriptions for hypertension - now why have I got that......
went to the big office in Granada, they promised it would be with me in 10 days max. That was 3 weeks ago.
Still not arrived.
Luckily at the present I am not "ill" just need repeat prescriptions for hypertension - now why have I got that......
And thanks Fred - I'll give it a go. Any idea where we can fill in the asset form?
Jan 31st 2013, 6:10 am
#55
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jun 2005
Location: Puente Esuri
Posts: 6,903
Re: Declaring worldwide assets to Hacienda
Here slightly off post but please how does one apply for a Health card and what is a NIR? We had an E121 on leaving the UK and now Newcastle say that we will be given a S1 when we leave France. Can only apply one month before leaving France.
So we have a nice bit of paper from Newcastle what please do we do with it on arriving in Javea? Going to look as well as to the concept of private medical insurance. Apparently Sanitas (is part of BUPA) which now in the UK is the Spire Group
Lots and lots to do before one can settle down and enjoy one's retirement!
So we have a nice bit of paper from Newcastle what please do we do with it on arriving in Javea? Going to look as well as to the concept of private medical insurance. Apparently Sanitas (is part of BUPA) which now in the UK is the Spire Group
Lots and lots to do before one can settle down and enjoy one's retirement!
Jan 31st 2013, 6:14 am
#56
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 977
Re: Declaring worldwide assets to Hacienda
Sorry fingers and its is early. Apologies once more
Jan 31st 2013, 6:21 am
#57
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jun 2005
Location: Puente Esuri
Posts: 6,903
Re: Declaring worldwide assets to Hacienda
i think you might be speaking tongue in check there Fred not that the digital certificate is the problem it seems to be clashes with COMPUTOR operating systems. I've had a couple of looks but each time I was rejected. Will get round to doing it sometime but for IT novices who just buy a laptop with windows whatever on it does not seem easy since you have switch off pop ups and other bits like Norton which worries me.
Jan 31st 2013, 6:27 am
#58
Joined: Jun 2006
Location: Granada Costa
Posts: 10,899
Re: Declaring worldwide assets to Hacienda
Yep me too. We applied and were told 6 weeks. Went back after 7 and were told 20 more days. Waited 4 weeks and went back - now they have no idea when we AND our children will get medical cards!
And thanks Fred - I'll give it a go. Any idea where we can fill in the asset form?
And thanks Fred - I'll give it a go. Any idea where we can fill in the asset form?
It would mean downloading a program to your PC, entering the data and electronically submitting it just like you can do with your tax declaration.
I imagine that there will be error checking built into the program to avoid you submitting an incorrect or incomplete submission.
The dates for submission are between March 1st and April 30th so presumably it will be made available by the 1st of March from the AEAT website, along with the PADRE tax program.
Jan 31st 2013, 6:35 am
#59
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jun 2005
Location: Puente Esuri
Posts: 6,903
Re: Declaring worldwide assets to Hacienda
This is the one bit of Spanish admin they seem to have got right. The DNI Spaniards get at birth and the NIE for Expats are just 10 digit alpha numeric identifiers which stay with you for life and are used by all official documents and departments such as medical passport tax Escritura etc. So different to UK which has a different number for each and every one.
Last edited by EsuriJohn; Jan 31st 2013 at 6:38 am.
Jan 31st 2013, 6:36 am
#60
Joined: Jun 2006
Location: Granada Costa
Posts: 10,899
Re: Declaring worldwide assets to Hacienda
i think you might be speaking tongue in check there Fred not that the digital certificate is the problem it seems to be clashes with COMPUTOR operating systems. I've had a couple of looks but each time I was rejected. Will get round to doing it sometime but for IT novices who just buy a laptop with windows whatever on it does not seem easy since you have switch off pop ups and other bits like Norton which worries me.
The longest part of the process is entering your NIE number which is the only data needed, then it take a couple of click to get the necessary code printed out to take to the relevant office for certification.
They will even give you a list of suitable places to take the form to if you key in you location.