KevinUK

Hello all,

Please forgive my ramblings in advance, I am keen to share my experiences and observations of living in South Africa (outside JHB), for just over three years.

I don't want to make this a wholly negative post, but I think it's always more interesting to hear peoples grumbles.

There are a few, seemingly small nuances of South African life that have made it hard for me to settle and really enjoy the country. Living here, has to my surprise made me more patriotic.

My employment has been in a sector where I deal with people from all backgrounds in South Africa and on a regular basis. I must boost my ego by saying that I have performed well compared with my colleagues. But a few things I have found hard to get used to...

Emails-These are rarely acknowledged or returned

Meetings- Often clients will not turn up or be grossly late and offer no apology for doing so, or indeed any indication they are aware of their tardiness.

General work ethic - People don't work as hard ! Granted South Africa is a country of early risers, but it is common place for work to finish at 1500 and whilst at work there is not a drive towards getting new business or for confronting and working out issues head on.

From my experience a high proportion of management structures are riddled with nepotism. Management seems to be poor and hands off. With little help or indeed ire at under performing members of staff.

Throw in poor structures/systems and a lack of desire for company development.

Driving- There is a general lack of knowledge around the highway code. There is very little etiquette and a lot of recklessness, especially on the highways.

People in general- I have ingratiated myself in to the local pubs and sports teams. People are cold at first to strangers, but once they have seen your face a few times are friendly and warm. Certainly in the pub environments, bar a few squabbles, there is a togetherness that I don't see as much back home.

I do feel that South Africans can lack charm and sense of humour, at least to my taste!

Things to do- I have embraced lots of outdoor hobbies, which are cheap and enjoyable. There is not so much on the cultural side and going in to the cities is a hassle, city centres are run down and a touch menacing.

Living in Gauteng means the most enjoyment has been from trips around this beautiful country. Dullstroom, Durban and host of small towns

There is a general feeling amongst people ( black and white and coloured and Indian and whoever else), that South Africa is a step away from ruin and civil war. Though I think that's nonsense, that attitude carried by some does become boring and irritating.

So to sum up... I have found South Africa, Beautiful, infuriating, but a place, for me, I would struggle to progress with my career.

Please feel free to share you experiences and Thank you for reading.

Pollyana

Welcome to BE - and thank you for an interesting first post!

teejaydee

Very interesting post, containing some useful information for those thinking of going there to work.

One aspect you didn't cover is safety. This is often the first thing people think of when considering a move to South Africa. I would be interested in hearing whether the perception that crime is rife is genuine, or is it possible to live and work in certain parts of the country without fearing for one's safety?

MartynK

It's not a perception, it's a reality. SA has frightening rates of violent (contact) crime. Just as an example, the murder rate - which doesn't include culpable homicide - is approaching 20/day. This only refers to the cases captured in the CAS, and may be conservative.

Some parts of South Africa and certain areas are more dangerous than others, but nowhere is remotely 'safe' compared to the UK or most other First World countries. Whether you, as an individual, or anyone else would 'fear for their safety' really depends on your ability to deal with this.

FWIW, I'm 62 and South African on my mother's side. I've spent most of my adult life in SA, mainly in security risk management roles, and I have both personal and professional experience to draw on.

teejaydee

Many thanks for this information. You clearly have an excellent base on which to comment on security. I would have no ability to deal with living in a country where I was always on my guard.

Around twenty years ago I was interested in a contract role in South Africa. At the time, I turned down the opportunity because of safety concerns. I doubt the situation has become any better since then, and so I'll have to put South Africa permanently out of my mind.

ededed

Hi Kevin, welcome to BE. I think your post is largely in line with my experience - although I would disagree with the comment above.

South Africa is a generation from becoming a failed state. Maybe not civil war, but it will have hyper-inflation and rampant crime will make it somewhere very few will want to invest in and if you kill tourism too it's dead as a destination. Given the ANC's total stranglehold on government and the complete indifference to the strength of the rand or willingness to make it an attractive place to bring direct foreign investment to, I'd say the country is fundamentally broken and beyond repair.

The best move I ever made was to get out. I thank the stars we did it in the nick of time.

KevinUK

Hello Teejaydee,

Myself and my partner were hijacked here a couple of years ago, it was terrifying.

We certainly do not live in fear. Probably because things are not set up in a way which leaves you that vulnerable.

We live in a secure estate, with electric fences and 24 hour security. There are very few high streets or public parks. So if we want to walk the dog, we will drive to a secure dog walking area. If we go shopping we will go to a mall with security.

If I go to the pub, I drive or use Uber. Where I live anyway, there is very little freedom.

KevinUK

Thank You Pollyana

KevinUK

Hi MartynK.

The biggest shame is that the reality of crime has formed the way the suburbs are laid out. It's always point a to point b.

The places close to Pretoria were we used to walk freely often feature in the paper for horrific crimes. The difference in South Africa compared to the UK, is that no matter were you are in South Africa there is always the threat of violent crime.

At home I would happily walk in almost all places day or night on my own. A side from the rough council estates. I think it a real shame South Africans are deprived of that.

KevinUK

Hello Ededed,

I'm glad you have found a better life elsewhere, good on you.

I must admit I feel that things will carry on the way they are, even though we seem to lurch from scandal to a economic meltdown regularly. There is enough money and space in South Africa for me personally ( I hope) not to be affected.

It won't be the fear of land reclaims or crime that makes me leave. It will rather be the people. It sounds terrible to read, but for me it's important. But hey, we are all different and I wasn't raised here!

SanDiegogirl

Interesting you mention that, in the long run, South Africa will not advance your career.

We lived in South Africa in the 1970's for nearly 4 years and my husband had that impression even then - and he was an engineer when they were in big demand.

We returned to Europe because of that impression.

Pizzawheel

Enjoyable post!

RSA is certainly a unique country, but it's hard to see it staying that way as apartheid disappears in the rear view mirror. I was glad to have visited there so often when I was living next door in Botswana, but I'd be reluctant to live there.

morpheus returns

As a South African abroad I can understand the frustration about South Africans and business alike. In the end I decided I needed a year away and see something different. That was 14 years ago and each year I say I will return.

Email: Nothing angers me more than when people do not respond. It drove me mad. I recall one year I emailed the sales department of a large brand name company for a quote. I got a reply later asking if I was still interested - oh by the way sorry for the delay. (2 months later)

The same was for government and large businesses. I recall one year my ATM card was rejected by an ATM machine overseas. I emailed the bank 3 times with no response. I had to make an international call more than once. Today I dont bother to email South Africa. Phone calls work.

Meetings: Africa time is an odd thing for me but when you grew up in the country it is just the norm. Nothing starts on time and nothing ends on time.

General work ethic: As I grew older I noticed that work ethic had gone down the drain since the 1980's. Everyone wanted credit for whatever worked but nobody would put in the time and effort. It drove me insane to the point where I decided one day just to leave the country. The South Africa I grew up in was not the one I left.

Nepotism: I have seen really bad decisions over the years. The one who gets things done but makes people feel unhappy gets the demotion. Its as if feelings have become more important than progress. Everyone also needs to meet the AA and BEE status which just becomes destructive.

Company Development: No. As I stated above its as if there is a lack of vision in many of the companies in South Africa. Its almost as if companies are becoming like the government - no view of tomorrow. Everybody just does enough to get away with it.

Crime: Dont get me started.

The country was not always this backward. I recall when things worked.

sasabo

An interesting read. My husband and I are living in the UK, he's South African, I'm British. We have two children and are currently thinking about moving to South Africa as we feel it will provide a healthier, outdoors lifestyle for our children. My husband's family is located along the Garden Route and say only good things about the area and country in general. They are under the impression that things are looking up, that the new generation have better opportunities, less thoughts of separation and racism than previous generations. We lived on The Garden Route for 8 months before we got married, about 12 years ago, and have visited on holiday with our children over the years. We love South Africa and think it has much to offer. I can't say we have an awful lot of faith in the UK and EU at the moment ;(

scot47

Most of my Afrikaner friends - both "verkrampte" and "verligte" - have left and have no intention of returning.