orchid_in_bloom

Hi All,

Has anyone here moved from the US to Singapore and gotten an All Risk Insurance for their household goods?

We've already booked a freight forwarder and now looking for an insurance company to secure our goods. So far, there seems to be a dearth of insurance companies insuring personal household goods. We've asked for quotes and have only gotten one response but it's for Total Loss.

Any recommendations?

Thanks!

uk_grenada

Honestly what is the chance of a partial loss while at sea - cause it ceases at the port... Getting to your new abode is a different story. Also if you have to pay duty, its on the CIF price including insurance and freight costs. Ive had huge crates and containers shipped, never damaged a single plate or glass, and believe me it was poorly packed - by me... When you look at them being moved, you dont nudge a container at all, its aa very smooth process till you leave the port.

I never insure household goods.

Pulaski

If you are shipping things by sea you absolutely need marine insurance, because of something called general average.

"General average" basically means that if part of a cargo is lost at sea then those shippers who lost nothing will be called on to compensate those whose shipment went overboard. In other words you might actually have an insurable loss even if you didn't actually lose anything!.

I have seen it estimated that around the world about 10,000 freight containers go overboard, or down with the ship, every year!

uk_grenada

Containers lost overboard are also a major shipping hazard, as they tend to sit just under the surface and are big heavy and hard enough to damage big vessels.

Whenever I have ship goods from the UK to the Caribbean the shippers provide the basic requirement of insurance at no cost, but it's not worth the paper it's written on in terms of actually recovering the values.

Many years ago I used to work for maersk shipping, and had the honor of being one of the people who occasionally have to inspect damaged containers. The most frequent failure is when containers are actually mishandled or actually dropped during loading in unloading of the ships. As this is normally a very smooth operation goods are normally treated very well but things like electronics quite often have shock watch stickers on the pallets which will alert the owner if they have been badly treated. Once i had to have opened a container of car alternators in cardboard cases on pallets that was dropped over the side on loading, between ship and the wharf, with the loss adjusters watching, you get 2 fork lift trucks backed up to the doors, open them then slowly drive a forklift away. A waterfall of papier mache with crunchy lumps exits at speed :-)

uk_grenada

I think the 10,000 number is the number of containers lost or disappeared completely regardless of how they lost. There are large numbers that disappear through theft or appropriation I'm told even administratively some get lost.

There used to be a great business in renaming/registering containers, steal them, take contents, cut our serial no, respray and generate a new id, sometimes all at sea between ports. there's a clever piece of technology that prevents that now. Being made of steel a container can be magnetized, and what they do these days is to write a huge magnetic barcode in the steel of the container in several places. Actually if a dusty container arrives you can sometimes slightly see one of the barcodes if the dust is slightly metallic. It's also common to use DNA paint in certain places.

Its also estimated the number of containers in use is growing at a rate. When the Panama Canal was cut, ships were made to fit it, these are called Panamax standard, as you may know the Panama Canal was recently widened which is resulted in a new standard Panamax 2, and people like maersk are rapidly growing the size of the biggest ships, up to 30k containers soon, and im told they need this. Next change im told from maersk is an express transatlantic and apac service, 2 day very fast but smaller container vessels to take business from airfreight. It will use standard size but lighter containers. They are comissioning some big gas turbine driven aluminium things from the maersk yards in korea.

Pulaski

No, that is specifically lost at sea. Here's a source, though I have seen the same number in a number of locations over the past decade or so.

Personally I would be surprised if the loss if containers to theft/ fraud isn't at least an order if magnitude greater.

uk_grenada

No, you are wrong - and if you read your source you will know...

Containers Lost – 2008 to 2013

For the combined six year period from 2008 to 2013, the WSC estimates that there were 546 containers lost on average each year, not counting for catastrophic events. Counting for catastrophic events, an average of 1,679 containers were lost each year over the six years.

Losses are Increasing

Based on the 2011 survey results, the World Shipping Council estimated that on average there were approximately 350 containers lost at sea each year during the 2008-2010 time frame, not counting for catastrophic events. When counting the catastrophic losses, an average annual total loss per year of approximately 675 containers was estimated for this three year period.

Based on 2014’s survey results, the WSV estimates that there were approximately 733 containers lost at sea on average for the years 2011, 2012 and 2013, not including catastrophic events. Including catastrophic losses, for these years the average annual loss was approximately 2,683 containers, an uptick of 297% from the previous three years.

How Many Shipping Containers Are Really Lost At Sea? – gCaptain

Pulaski

You are right - I looked to find the 10,000 number, and didn't read to the end of the article.

kirstyp

Do the company you're moving with not offer insurance or is it not a traditional moving company you're moving with?

orchid_in_bloom

Thanks for the reply everyone. Interesting points you all raised.

Initially, we didn't like the insurance company the shipping company partnered with due to the high number of negative reviews. They were also offering the basic "total loss" insurance only. We went with another insurance company who quoted us an amount based on "goods packed by owner" but the contract we received stated "goods must have been professionally packed."

After some scaremongering from our shipping company who badmouthed the insurance we picked and because the insurance company did not change the wording, we asked for a refund and went with the shipping company's insurance company.

Now, we're waiting for our goods. The shipping company messed up. We paid to have our goods picked up along with the disassembly of the furniture. The movers arrived, dismantled our furniture but did not bubble wrap or pack them. Consequently, the entire goods were rejected at port, of course!

Back and forth with the shipping company, screen-capturing of the contract, and they grudgingly admitted they messed up. The furniture were packed and we got billed an additional US$3k for storage and packing.

Then Hurricane Irma happened and the goods couldn't be shipped.

Last update was today, the goods have shipped and will arrive in Singapore on the last week of October.

Frankly, I'll be surprised if we get our goods intact with no damage and no boxes missing. If there will be damage or loss, I don't even think we'd be able to get anything because the insurance we took was for "total loss."

Fingers crossed.

quiltman

Oh dear Orchid. Fingers crossed there is not too much damage. When we shipped our good here to Cebu, the company dismantled the tables etc , wrapped all the items in bubble wrap and cardboard - put the american fridge on a pallet, bubble wrapped it and then cardboard. They also built a wooden crate for the TV which was again bubble wrapped and strapped to the crate frame. On arrival we had one mirror cracked. All my wifes crown derby collection arrived intact. all included in the price.They also compiled all the packing lists. The only extra was for 3 weeks storage between packing at our old property and loading into the container as we had to sort out temporary storage this end. total cost was around £3500 including all clearance charges. We took out marine "all risks" insurance but for the life of me cannot remember who with - they were a member of lloyds though.
as a bit of fun, if you have the container number, or the vessel name you can track it's progress . Just put "container tracking" into google and choose one of the various tracking programs. It was fascinating seeing how far each day the vessel went and where it called in on the way to Singapore. It was then transferred to a smaller vessel for the last few days to Cebu. The kids loved it!

orchid_in_bloom

Our furniture finally arrived!

Except for the hole on the back panel of the console and some nicks on the wooden legs of our tables and chairs, our items were in pretty good condition. All my bubble wrapping protected the china.

The local agents were quick and efficient and repaired the back panel the best way they could - with masking tape. Didn't really bother us since the back panel was flushed against the wall.

Now comes the matter of trying to get money out of the US Shipping company for all the additional costs they charged us, which was part of the contract.

Does filing a BBB complaint do anything?