Schmaits

Hi All,

My boss has just offered me the oppotrunity to move to Singapore. I want to go, but I'm very close to my family and have never lived that far away.

How long does everyone leave themselves for a trip back to the UK? I know the ideal would be at least 2 weeks, but if you just went back for a week would that be a wasted trip because of jetlag, or would it be okay if a little short?

Thanks,

Caitlin

bakedbean

Hi and welcome to the forum

Only you know how you cope with jet lag. When I did the journey I'd be pretty useless for a couple,of weeks but that's just me. You may want to think about Skype and similar. You can talk to your family over the net.

Think I would be thinking more of the high costs in Singapore before,you make the move. Are you aware how expensive Singapore is these days? Will your employer be sorting out accommodation for you? Check out some existing topics in this section.

Schmaits

Thank you, good to be here! And thanks for the response.

Guess I'll just have to make the trip and see how it affects me. Yeah, think I'm going to have a lot of Skype chats at 4 in the morning!

I only got the offer on Monday, so the particulars haven't been ironed out yet. The estimate is a £40-45k package (which is an absolute fortune to me at the moment, but I know the costs of living is much higher in Singapore). Accommodation (budget estimated at S$2000-2300 a month) health insurance, and two flights back to the UK per year will be part of that package. Does that seem reasonable? Its hard to know sometimes until you're there, but I don't want to end up completely skint!

ex reg

By package I assume that it includes money for accommodation, transport, medical ( I see medical will be included under your health insurance, but will dental?) etc etc
Will your employer pick up your tax bill?

Just because the package seems like a fortune to you doesn't mean that it is or that it is the Singapore rate for the job.

Anyway you will be able to live on it and maybe save a bit as well although you won't be living the high life.

Do you mind telling us what industry you will be working in?

You also don't give your age or if your family means parents and relations or wife and kids?

I'm like bb inasmuch as jetlag effects me for a few weeks although it's always much worse west to east rather than east to west.

Funny thing is my sister in law is never effected by jet lag, but she does keep waking up at 2-30am every morning for a few weeks and can't get back to sleep until just before the alarm goes off.
Just noticed you are called Caitlin.

Schmaits

Yes, all that is included. Will have to check on dental, good point. I don't think they'll pick up the tax bill.

I know that, just meant if I was on that amount in my situation now I'd be sitting pretty! But I know that Singapore is obviously much, much more expensive now that I've been researching it. I just don't want to end up having to sit in my flat all the time because I've got no money.

I'm 22, so by family I'm meaning my parents, sister, etc. We're very close which is why I'm worried about leaving, but I think this is an opportunity that will probably never come up again so I've got to at least try it.

I'm hoping I'll be able to deal with the jetlag, never had it that badly when I've flown long-distance before, but will have to wait and see I suppose!

dean350

Caitlin

On the money front, do your sums carefully before making a commitment. Take your time to get everything down in writing. Ask your boss to draw up a draft contract for you to examine. Ask about contract duration and what happens if a fixed term contract comes to an end - will you have a guaranteed place back in the UK.

On the plus side, taxes are very low here and that makes a huge difference to your take home pay. Check out the IRAS website but I think you will find that your deductions will total about 6%. The rest will be yours. Therefore you will receive about $7000 a month. I can't work out whether your rent has to come out of this or not. If it doesn't that's great money at 22 years old. If rent has to come out then that leaves you with about $4500 a month which still isn't bad. I also can't work out whether your flights home, medical insurance etc come out of that so do those sums carefully and get a good written understanding before you sign up.

Find out where your office will be and check out apartment rents either nearby or within a few metro stops of the office. You can do all this on the internet - Google is your friend. $2000-$2300 is perhaps a little light though for a 1 bed private condo even in the suburbs. Perhaps ought to be up at about $2400-$2600.

Utilities will be perhaps $150 a month if you don't use air con too much. Internet is about $50 a month.

You then have your daily trip to work to factor in (maybe $3-5$ a day by public transport) and then the cost of lunch (cheap if you eat Asian food - expensive if you want a Western meal)

Do your sums and find out how much you have left over after essentials. Budget for some local vacation travel whilst your are here and see what you have left over.

If you are are a forward thinker then set a savings target for each year you are here and try and stick to it.

If your boss is asking you to transfer then it sounds as if you have some room to negotiate on the package. Do not be afraid to do so - your boss will respect you more if you do so. Try getting your rent allowance upped a bit or the ability to put your EZ Link Top Ups on expenses. Just say something like 'I am very interested in the job but I have one or two concerns about the package....' A decent boss will know how to handle this sort of conversation and will be half expecting it anyway.

For trips home, I would say don't bother with 1 week. It always feels way too short. Its normally three days to get over the jet lag by which time its nearly over.

At the age of 22 I would say go for it once you have done the sums. On the downside the first few months will feel tough because you have to get used to a new country and used to being away from family and friends. Skype is great though - crystal clear video chats on the TV and all for free. Plus its all balanced out by a huge variety of new experiences and new friends. You never know where it could lead!

bakedbean

Schmaits

Hi, thanks for the post, that's really useful!

I don't think they've got it all worked out just yet to be honest, but I intend to accept only subject to seeing the contract and entire package in writing. I think my accommodation will come out of that 40-45k, but I don't think the flights home I've requested or the health insurance will.

I think the office is in District 1. Accommodation is what I'm mainly concerned about, I don't want to live miles and miles away and have a really long commute. I'll discuss this with my boss and try and get the budget upped a bit, nothing seems set in stone yet. I've been looking about a little bit and seems like everything's at least double what I'm paying here, if not more.

I definitely want to do some travelling while I'm out there, but I think most of my holiday days are going to be taken up with visiting the UK. Still, will hopefully be able to get about quite a bit on long weekends. Wouldn't have taken time off earlier this year if I'd known this was happening!

I think it's going to be really difficult, but at the same time I think it's too good an opportunity to miss. Guess I better get them to make some decision and get my maths hat on to figure out if it's all going to add up!

bakedbean

Long weekends are definitely possible. Changi must be about the most efficient airport in the world... you can breeze through like a dose of salts. And you've got quite a lot of destinations within 1 to 2 hours away.... Penang and Langkawi (Malaysia) are only an hour away. Phuket and Samui (Thailand) just a bit further. Just to give you a taster. Quite a lot of budget airlines and of course Malaysia and Thailand are way cheaper than Singapore.

Hannieroo

Lots of young people flat share so you could reduce your outgoings a little. A master room (own bathroom) can be had for more like 1.5k in areas that would be suitable for you.

It's an amazing opportunity for a 22 year old but do bear in mind clothes and going out are far more expensive here.

I never get jetlag going back but I do when I return but each trip is a little less. Melatonin helps a lot and is in any vitamin shop here.

Schmaits

Right, after quite a bit of waiting, they've made me a formal offer:

- £34,000pa
- 1 flight back to the UK per year
- Health Insurance

I'm okay with the salary really, I've done some sums and I think it should be workable. I'm debating as to whether to get a flat share anyway, as it would be nice to have to some people to talk to straight off the bat (even if I do love havibg my own place!). I am going to ask for a 10% bonus though, as other people at my level get this.

The flight back per year is what I'm really not happy with, I think if I'm moving across the worlf it's not unreasonable to expect to be able to come home twice. How much do you yhinkan average return flight costs? I was thinking about setting a financial limit on the flight, rather than no. of flights. My boss has suggested that a return flight is about a grand, but from what I've seen, you can get them for much cheaper if you book in advance.

Again, any advice would be much appreciated, you've all been really helpful!

dean350

Don't accept the first offer you are given. Go back and ask for more salary and the bonus on top as well. If they want you out here they will give you some if not all of that. Bosses get where they are by being good negotiators and by being firm. You have to do the same. On the flights simply say that you want two flights home a year. They may come back and say that 'no one else gets this' or 'its not standard'. Being good negotiators they will not react by closing off the conversation - they will always leave the door slightly ajar although you may not realize it at the time. In these situations I always say that packages are individually negotiated and I don't discuss the details with anyone. Therefore what other people get or what is standard simply isn't relevant. It works for me!

You ought to divulge the nature of the job as well because then people will be able to tell you whether the money is right for the position. To be frank, 34,000GBP with no accommodation included will put you pretty much at the bottom of the western expat payscale. International Teachers here for example make about 7K a month with housing paid for.

Also clarify how much a/l you will get and how much of it can be taken in one chunk.

Good luck!

Englishmum

I don't know anyone who got two home-leave flights a year - even senior managers/MD's.

The first time we lived in Singapore the company policy was a full (flexible) economy class allowance. This was great as all the expats flew on restricted economy tickets so there was money left over to pay for regional trips (we went to places such as Hong Kong, the Philippines, Australia). My spouse was/is a senior manager btw.

However a new MD arrived from the UK and put a stop to that, saying that the travel budget was too high and home leave allowances were restricted to the cheapest economy fares. This policy became company-wide across the world and no expat gets more than one annual home leave flight in economy class.

The only exception is for compassionate flights eg. in serious illness or death of a close family member (ie. sibling, parents, grandparents, children) so uncles/aunts/cousins/friends are excluded. My dad died suddenly a week after I'd got back from the UK and I had to fly back again, but the company paid for my flights.

(O/P - If I were you I would definitely get a request for compassionate flights written into your contract).

Schmaits

I work in the Maritime Security Industry, very small so it's not often easy to compare salaries, but I will be going as an Operations Manager. I think the relatively low salary is a reflection of the fact that up until three months ago I was an assistant, and have no prior experience, the other managers in my current office have a lot of experience in the shipping industry. I am planning on asking for a review within a few months.

In terms of annual leave I get 25 days + public holidays, and the standard policy is 2 weeks at a time, more is possible, but you need special permission.

The two flights are a dealbreaker for me, and I'm going to make it clear. They've never relocated anyone before, so they don't have a standard package as such. I understand that it might not be the usual, but as I'm going on my own and not with a partner, kids, etc. I don't think it's unreasonable at all.

The compassionate flights are a good point, and I have been thinking about it. At the very least, I need them to pay for the flights and for me to pay them back in instalments.

dean350

Interesting.

You are probably in much stronger position than you realise. To fill this role your company can either a) get some one off the street in the UK b) hire an unknown Philipino in Singapore c) send someone they know and trust.

Sounds like they have wisely opted for option c.

Having only been an assistant up until now is completely irrelevant. They have decided that you have the necessary skills for the job. You now need to find out what the market rate for that job is here (for a western expat) and get that. Do not come expecting a review once you are here because by the time you are here your bargaining position will be much weaker. You ought to be looking at a minimum of 7000SGD a month with accommodation paid by and arranged by the employer. There aren't too many westerners working here as a manager for any thing less than that. The vast majority in fact earn a lot more.

It tough because you may not have to have negotiated like this before. Bear in mind though that your bosses will be negotiating with customers, suppliers and other employees all the time so they are used to it. Also try to remember that the money they are offering you is peanuts to them - they just want you out here and started. An extra few thousand to get this achieved will not mean a lot to them. Once they have done a deal with you they will breathe a short sigh of relief and move on the next problem in their in tray.

The other thing you ought to look into is the work permit situation. Go to the Ministry of Manpower website and learn all this. You will find that in order to get certain types of permit, a minimum salary level applies. You also need to understand whether your company will open a company here or whether they want to go down the Representative Office route.

If you are in a small company with no HR dept then you have a golden opportunity to become your companies source of knowledge on these things.

It sounds like a great opportunity still. Take your time with negotiating the package and do lots of research.

If I were you I would annotate the draft contract with the numbers and clauses you want in it, take it in and go through it line by line with your boss pointing out the bits you need to have changed. Stress that you want to go but can only do so if the package is right. Tell him you have done a lot of research. Remember that this is the behavior he would expect you to exhibit if you were negotiating a contract on his behalf with a supplier. He will not mind one jot if you exhibit the same care and professionalism when negotiating your own contract.