PDT v TIO

Old Jun 7th 2014, 12:50 am
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Default PDT v TIO

Presumably PDT was set up primarily for ex-pats in Spain but members from other locations could of course contribute and rightly so.

By definition PDT is for Religion, Politics etc. and as one would expect debates get heated at a times and regrettably too personal.

PDT is now effectively redundant as every thread started there may in some way affect ex-pats around the world and therefore is appropriate in the more general forum that is TIO.

The problem for me (and I am only speaking for myself) is that TIO is frequented by people that very quickly seem to derail any thread. More so than happened in PDT. I have no particular nostalgia for PDT but I would like to see an equally firm hand applied to moderating TIO.
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Old Jun 7th 2014, 1:19 am
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Default Re: PDT v TIO

If a thread in TIO descends into no more than a tedious litany of personal jibes and name calling as has happened in PdT ,which in itself derails from a topic, it will be moderated I am sure. Either by the moderators or by the other posters themselves who tend to be able to self moderate.

I understand what you write about the tendency within TIO to be perhaps less ardent with more leanings towards irony, humour and asides . Each forum has it's own tone after all. However, it is a good platform for discussions as it has a looser feel to it overall. It is also away from the main individual and specific country forums so that allows for this.

In the past , anything that became overheated was plonked into TIO so it is historically the arena for those types of threads.

There is no desire to stifle debate & discussion. If you feel that the TIO is a little too flippant at present & has a tendency to lose the subject matter with off topic posts then you can help alter that simply by the quality & input of your posts on said topic.

I have a feeling the TIO would really enjoy some quality threads with quality posts from assorted posters. I know I would.
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Old Jun 7th 2014, 11:23 am
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Default Re: PDT v TIO

So PDT is being subtly discouraged in the hope that TIO will put it "all" into one place?
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Old Jun 7th 2014, 11:39 am
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Default Re: PDT v TIO

Originally Posted by Mitzyboy
So PDT is being subtly discouraged in the hope that TIO will put it "all" into one place?
It's looking that way. Not necessarily a bad thing. I guess we will have to get used to different debaters style.
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Old Jun 7th 2014, 11:59 am
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Default Re: PDT v TIO

Originally Posted by BEVS
If a thread in TIO descends into no more than a tedious litany of personal jibes and name calling as has happened in PdT ,which in itself derails from a topic, it will be moderated I am sure. Either by the moderators or by the other posters themselves who tend to be able to self moderate.

I understand what you write about the tendency within TIO to be perhaps less ardent with more leanings towards irony, humour and asides . Each forum has it's own tone after all. However, it is a good platform for discussions as it has a looser feel to it overall. It is also away from the main individual and specific country forums so that allows for this.

In the past , anything that became overheated was plonked into TIO so it is historically the arena for those types of threads.

There is no desire to stifle debate & discussion. If you feel that the TIO is a little too flippant at present & has a tendency to lose the subject matter with off topic posts then you can help alter that simply by the quality & input of your posts on said topic.

I have a feeling the TIO would really enjoy some quality threads with quality posts from assorted posters. I know I would.
I would disagree with you on the first point - we know it isn't moderated and is full of simple half sentences, TLA's and numerous things like <<sigh>> or pictures to say a thousand words - that really say zilch. Oh and thread spoilers that run for pages about inconsequential personal comments that should be on another communication media.
The place is a nightmare and they have run out of fresh blood so like all good vampires they are looking for places to roost.

however, you know you are always welcome in the BES forum anytime.
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Old Jun 7th 2014, 12:02 pm
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Default Re: PDT v TIO

Originally Posted by Mitzyboy
So PDT is being subtly discouraged in the hope that TIO will put it "all" into one place?
Originally Posted by stuboy
It's looking that way. Not necessarily a bad thing. I guess we will have to get used to different debaters style.
I don't think that is how Mitzyboy envisaged it when it was first started back in those heady days of Dec 2011.

However his moving back a pace, returning his laptop - or whatever a mod does when leaving - has I am sure left a big hole for Sue to fill.
He will be missed on both sides of the fence.
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Old Jun 7th 2014, 12:21 pm
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Default Re: PDT v TIO

Originally Posted by Domino
I would disagree with you on the first point - we know it isn't moderated and is full of simple half sentences, TLA's and numerous things like <<sigh>> or pictures to say a thousand words - that really say zilch. Oh and thread spoilers that run for pages about inconsequential personal comments that should be on another communication media.
The place is a nightmare and they have run out of fresh blood so like all good vampires they are looking for places to roost.

however, you know you are always welcome in the BES forum anytime.
I honestly thought you were talking about PDT until I got to "they". Seriously, I'm not having a go. It had become a place of personal attacks and utter predictability in posting according to which "side" posters were on. So you always knew who would say what and what the reaction would be to any given poster on any subject, along with a vast quantity of smilies to express contempt or support.

I was quite enjoying the remix in TIO which had indeed been dead for some time. It is also true that those who normally post in there, as well as the Lounge, post with a very generous quantity of sarcasm and humour. Many of us live in the US where that sort of thing is not much used so we are starved for an outlet and enjoy it on BE. But most people there will also talk with you seriously at the same time if it's a serious discussion. However, flaming rants and posts that start out just being rude to other posters will almost always have the piss taken, as will views that people find downright objectionable. TIO has been around a while so a lot of the arguments have been hashed over before by the old timers.

Here endeth the lesson.
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Old Jun 7th 2014, 12:28 pm
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Default Re: PDT v TIO

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter
I honestly thought you were talking about PDT until I got to "they". Seriously, I'm not having a go. It had become a place of personal attacks and utter predictability in posting according to which "side" posters were on. So you always knew who would say what and what the reaction would be to any given poster on any subject, along with a vast quantity of smilies to express contempt or support.

I was quite enjoying the remix in TIO which had indeed been dead for some time. It is also true that those who normally post in there, as well as the Lounge, post with a very generous quantity of sarcasm and humour. Many of us live in the US where that sort of thing is not much used so we are starved for an outlet and enjoy it on BE. But most people there will also talk with you seriously at the same time if it's a serious discussion. However, flaming rants and posts that start out just being rude to other posters will almost always have the piss taken, as will views that people find downright objectionable. TIO has been around a while so a lot of the arguments have been hashed over before by the old timers.

Here endeth the lesson.
oh dearly beloved, it is so nice to see you here today - welcome

if you want to be rude to people and rehash the same old posting history year after year that is fine. But when you keep on and on and on and will not accept the opposing view held by others and just keep trying to hammer the nails in (whilst others were crucified by ropes) then you will find you get a bad rep - no matter where you visit.

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Old Jun 7th 2014, 12:40 pm
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Default Re: PDT v TIO

Originally Posted by Domino
oh dearly beloved, it is so nice to see you here today - welcome

if you want to be rude to people and rehash the same old posting history year after year that is fine. But when you keep on and on and on and will not accept the opposing view held by others and just keep trying to hammer the nails in (whilst others were crucified by ropes) then you will find you get a bad rep - no matter where you visit.

Nobody accepts opposing views. That's why they're called opposing. You usually do not agree with me either and say so freely and "hammer" as much as the next person. I don't hold that against you or consider that it gives you a "bad rep".

I feel very strongly about how people are treated in the world, and I'm likely to say so. Nothing wrong with that. Everybody has the right to speak and everybody to respond. Away from the computer screens we would probably find it easier to talk.
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Old Jun 7th 2014, 1:12 pm
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Default Re: PDT v TIO

Originally Posted by Mitzyboy
So PDT is being subtly discouraged in the hope that TIO will put it "all" into one place?
Hardly subtly discouraged methinks.

As blatantly obvious as the nose on your face.

It appears PDT regulars are simply being used, no more no less, to bring back to life and revive the forum of the living dead, or the old Grannies knitting circle as I see them myself.

Little wonder some interesting regular posters have chosen to bow out and move elsewhere of their own accord.

Having seen the contents of one particularly unpleasant and totally unjustified message sent to a certain valuable ex BE poster, I can fully understand and sympathize with the negative reaction in that particular case.
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Old Jun 7th 2014, 1:53 pm
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Default Re: PDT v TIO

Seriously you lot, I think we are probably all worth getting to know a bit better than what can be gleaned from these PDT and/or TIO encounters. Views and beliefs and experiences and thoughts can be discussed in a different tone from what is the norm in here. There are also many, many other areas of BE where the topics are not controversial at all, such as The Lounge, and all sorts of people can find something to chat about in there and we get to know each other and see each other as people. We're all grown ups - how about we all just go out and come in again and see if we can do better? It doesn't have to be in PDT or TIO - BE is our oyster.
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Old Jun 7th 2014, 1:54 pm
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Default Re: PDT v TIO

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter
Nobody accepts opposing views. That's why they're called opposing. You usually do not agree with me either and say so freely and "hammer" as much as the next person. I don't hold that against you or consider that it gives you a "bad rep".

I feel very strongly about how people are treated in the world, and I'm likely to say so. Nothing wrong with that. Everybody has the right to speak and everybody to respond. Away from the computer screens we would probably find it easier to talk.
wrong again. You have to accept that if people have opposing views to yourself that you aren't going to have them change their mind by having abuse flung at them. You are going to make them more obdurate, dig their heels in and fight for the right to have an opposing view.
That is life. otherwise we would all be Conservative, Democrats or whatever. But then you obviously don't understand that even within single parties it is possible to have opposing views. Sad really

As to how people are treated in the world - you will never ever, in a million sunday's get anything done about it by putting out a million posts here on BE. You have to take your concerns direct to those who can/could do something about it (but probably won't). It is no use hitting someone dozens of times here on BES.

I am also concerned as to how people are treated in the world.
I have seen parents bringing up a family in a wooden crate (in one instance with the name of a world renowned diesel engine manufacturer on it).
I have seen mothers cooking the only meal of the day for a family of 5 in a large catering sized baked bean tin over an open fire.
I have seen people drinking water out of an ordinary household sized baked bean tin, after travelling 5 miles to the (dodgy) source to collect it.
I have seen people fighting over a cardboard box that will provide the roof over their head for a cold and wintery night - outside Embankment station, which is used by thousands of people to get to the Whitehall seat of Govt. Or to wine and dine in the Strand, Pall Mall and other up market places. And some of those people fighting are ex-servicemen - rejected by their family, their employer and their nation.

So, have a nice day, you can have today and Sunday off before you start lobbying those who can/may do something for the people of the world.
Best of luck.
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Old Jun 7th 2014, 1:57 pm
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Default Re: PDT v TIO

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter
Seriously you lot, I think we are probably all worth getting to know a bit better than what can be gleaned from these PDT and/or TIO encounters. Views and beliefs and experiences and thoughts can be discussed in a different tone from what is the norm in here. There are also many, many other areas of BE where the topics are not controversial at all, such as The Lounge, and all sorts of people can find something to chat about in there and we get to know each other and see each other as people. We're all grown ups - how about we all just go out and come in again and see if we can do better? It doesn't have to be in PDT or TIO - BE is our oyster.
I am sure you are right, there are some really interesting people here. What worries us is the people who are endeavouring to join our ranks. With their past experience of abusing and using and p-taking and derogatory and open nastiness would you honestly let them in your home ??

It's like inviting a 5 times convicted thief to house sit for you
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Old Jun 7th 2014, 1:58 pm
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Default Re: PDT v TIO

Originally Posted by Domino
I am sure you are right, there are some really interesting people here. What worries us is the people who are endeavouring to join our ranks. With their past experience of abusing and using and p-taking and derogatory and open nastiness would you honestly let them in your home ??

It's like inviting a 5 times convicted thief to house sit for you
Domino, can we agree that this has not been one-sided? And then move on? It's all one forum.
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Old Jun 7th 2014, 2:01 pm
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Default Re: PDT v TIO

Originally Posted by Domino
wrong again. You have to accept that if people have opposing views to yourself that you aren't going to have them change their mind by having abuse flung at them. You are going to make them more obdurate, dig their heels in and fight for the right to have an opposing view.
That is life. otherwise we would all be Conservative, Democrats or whatever. But then you obviously don't understand that even within single parties it is possible to have opposing views. Sad really

As to how people are treated in the world - you will never ever, in a million sunday's get anything done about it by putting out a million posts here on BE. You have to take your concerns direct to those who can/could do something about it (but probably won't). It is no use hitting someone dozens of times here on BES.

I am also concerned as to how people are treated in the world.
I have seen parents bringing up a family in a wooden crate (in one instance with the name of a world renowned diesel engine manufacturer on it).
I have seen mothers cooking the only meal of the day for a family of 5 in a large catering sized baked bean tin over an open fire.
I have seen people drinking water out of an ordinary household sized baked bean tin, after travelling 5 miles to the (dodgy) source to collect it.
I have seen people fighting over a cardboard box that will provide the roof over their head for a cold and wintery night - outside Embankment station, which is used by thousands of people to get to the Whitehall seat of Govt. Or to wine and dine in the Strand, Pall Mall and other up market places. And some of those people fighting are ex-servicemen - rejected by their family, their employer and their nation.

So, have a nice day, you can have today and Sunday off before you start lobbying those who can/may do something for the people of the world.
Best of luck.

I think you would be surprised at some of the experiences I have had and things I've seen and places I've been if we ever had an atmosphere in here where one could share that stuff.

You see, we may well have more in common than you might think.
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