Netherlands: Canal vs Gracht
Dec 6th 2003, 1:40 am
#1
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Netherlands: Canal vs Gracht
Dennis G. Rears wrote:
> I do not speak Nederlands but can increasing read it and it is close to
> German. A favorite place of mine has become a Kino by Artis. It is by Tram
> 9 stop Plantage Kirklange. I was speaking to some locals about the language.
> Evidently a Gracht is a canal by a city. Also the Nederland word for canal
> is canal which is different than a gracht. The reason I am posting at first
> the people did not know what I was saying. I had to show them a map of
> Amsterdam and point out the word. After that I had a few people trying to
> pronounce the gutteral gr sound.
Just for the record, a gracht is an urban canal, usually from the
medieval or early modern period, that was used in the same ways the
canals of Venice were used (i.e. as the main conduit for bulk transport
through the cities). Grachten tend to be narrow and flanked by roads on
either side. The grachten of say Amsterdam and Leiden have relatively
low banks (1m to 1.5m) and one level only, whereas in say Utrecht the
banks are closer to 3m above water level, but there are many low (50cm
or less above water) loading areas fronting underground warehouses. Most
of these have now been converted to restaurants or bars.
A kanaal is a much longer waterway, either linking cities to each other
or to rivers, or as part of the waterworks keeping the polders
(reclaimed land below sea level) dry. Although some are rather old, most
kanalen are recent and can be very large- the whole port of Rotterdam is
built onto the side of the largest, the Nieuwe Waterweg (New waterway)
that currently serves as the mouth for most of the water of the Rijn
(Rhein) which until the 19th century had several mouthes crossing most
of southern Holland.
But as a rule of thumb, a gracht is small, short, old and urban, whereas
a kanaal is wide, long, new and outside the cities.
> I do not speak Nederlands but can increasing read it and it is close to
> German. A favorite place of mine has become a Kino by Artis. It is by Tram
> 9 stop Plantage Kirklange. I was speaking to some locals about the language.
> Evidently a Gracht is a canal by a city. Also the Nederland word for canal
> is canal which is different than a gracht. The reason I am posting at first
> the people did not know what I was saying. I had to show them a map of
> Amsterdam and point out the word. After that I had a few people trying to
> pronounce the gutteral gr sound.
Just for the record, a gracht is an urban canal, usually from the
medieval or early modern period, that was used in the same ways the
canals of Venice were used (i.e. as the main conduit for bulk transport
through the cities). Grachten tend to be narrow and flanked by roads on
either side. The grachten of say Amsterdam and Leiden have relatively
low banks (1m to 1.5m) and one level only, whereas in say Utrecht the
banks are closer to 3m above water level, but there are many low (50cm
or less above water) loading areas fronting underground warehouses. Most
of these have now been converted to restaurants or bars.
A kanaal is a much longer waterway, either linking cities to each other
or to rivers, or as part of the waterworks keeping the polders
(reclaimed land below sea level) dry. Although some are rather old, most
kanalen are recent and can be very large- the whole port of Rotterdam is
built onto the side of the largest, the Nieuwe Waterweg (New waterway)
that currently serves as the mouth for most of the water of the Rijn
(Rhein) which until the 19th century had several mouthes crossing most
of southern Holland.
But as a rule of thumb, a gracht is small, short, old and urban, whereas
a kanaal is wide, long, new and outside the cities.
Dec 6th 2003, 4:13 am
#2
Guest
Posts: n/a
Netherlands: Canal vs Gracht
About a fortnight ago I was in the Netherlands. As is my custom I love to
talk to the locals and in the Nederlands that means English as I do not
speak Dutch(netherlands). I find I can almost understand the written
language thanks to my knowledge of German. The spoken language in a fast
fire way is Greek to me.
I do not speak Nederlands but can increasing read it and it is close to
German. A favorite place of mine has become a Kino by Artis. It is by Tram
9 stop Plantage Kirklange. I was speaking to some locals about the language.
Evidently a Gracht is a canal by a city. Also the Nederland word for canal
is canal which is different than a gracht. The reason I am posting at first
the people did not know what I was saying. I had to show them a map of
Amsterdam and point out the word. After that I had a few people trying to
pronounce the gutteral gr sound.
I learned my lesson speak only english. When I tried speakiong gracht in
a bar they had no idea what I was talking about.
dennis
talk to the locals and in the Nederlands that means English as I do not
speak Dutch(netherlands). I find I can almost understand the written
language thanks to my knowledge of German. The spoken language in a fast
fire way is Greek to me.
I do not speak Nederlands but can increasing read it and it is close to
German. A favorite place of mine has become a Kino by Artis. It is by Tram
9 stop Plantage Kirklange. I was speaking to some locals about the language.
Evidently a Gracht is a canal by a city. Also the Nederland word for canal
is canal which is different than a gracht. The reason I am posting at first
the people did not know what I was saying. I had to show them a map of
Amsterdam and point out the word. After that I had a few people trying to
pronounce the gutteral gr sound.
I learned my lesson speak only english. When I tried speakiong gracht in
a bar they had no idea what I was talking about.
dennis
Dec 6th 2003, 7:24 am
#3
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Netherlands: Canal vs Gracht
"Dennis G. Rears" <[email protected]> schreef in bericht
news:[email protected]...
> About a fortnight ago I was in the Netherlands. As is my custom I love
to
> talk to the locals and in the Nederlands that means English as I do not
> speak Dutch(netherlands). I find I can almost understand the written
> language thanks to my knowledge of German. The spoken language in a fast
> fire way is Greek to me.
That's the way we like it. :-) It is good to speak a language that "nobody"
can understand.
> I do not speak Nederlands but can increasing read it and it is close to
> German. A favorite place of mine has become a Kino by Artis. It is by
Tram
> 9 stop Plantage Kirklange.
Plantage Kerklaan.
>I was speaking to some locals about the language.
> Evidently a Gracht is a canal by a city. Also the Nederland word for
canal
> is canal
Kanaal.
>which is different than a gracht. The reason I am posting at first
> the people did not know what I was saying. I had to show them a map of
> Amsterdam and point out the word. After that I had a few people trying
to
> pronounce the gutteral gr sound.
> I learned my lesson speak only english. When I tried speakiong gracht
in
> a bar they had no idea what I was talking about.
"Gracht" is not one of the easier words to pronounce, but we appreciate that
you tried!
Sjoerd
news:[email protected]...
> About a fortnight ago I was in the Netherlands. As is my custom I love
to
> talk to the locals and in the Nederlands that means English as I do not
> speak Dutch(netherlands). I find I can almost understand the written
> language thanks to my knowledge of German. The spoken language in a fast
> fire way is Greek to me.
That's the way we like it. :-) It is good to speak a language that "nobody"
can understand.
> I do not speak Nederlands but can increasing read it and it is close to
> German. A favorite place of mine has become a Kino by Artis. It is by
Tram
> 9 stop Plantage Kirklange.
Plantage Kerklaan.
>I was speaking to some locals about the language.
> Evidently a Gracht is a canal by a city. Also the Nederland word for
canal
> is canal
Kanaal.
>which is different than a gracht. The reason I am posting at first
> the people did not know what I was saying. I had to show them a map of
> Amsterdam and point out the word. After that I had a few people trying
to
> pronounce the gutteral gr sound.
> I learned my lesson speak only english. When I tried speakiong gracht
in
> a bar they had no idea what I was talking about.
"Gracht" is not one of the easier words to pronounce, but we appreciate that
you tried!
Sjoerd
Dec 6th 2003, 10:04 am
#4
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Netherlands: Canal vs Gracht
On Sat, 06 Dec 2003 05:13:30 GMT, in rec.travel.europe, "Dennis G. Rears"
<[email protected]> arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :
... About a fortnight ago I was in the Netherlands. As is my custom I love to
... talk to the locals and in the Nederlands that means English as I do not
... speak Dutch(netherlands). I find I can almost understand the written
... language thanks to my knowledge of German. The spoken language in a fast
... fire way is Greek to me.
Even when they speak slowly you have no better chance of understanding it. :-((
<[email protected]> arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :
... About a fortnight ago I was in the Netherlands. As is my custom I love to
... talk to the locals and in the Nederlands that means English as I do not
... speak Dutch(netherlands). I find I can almost understand the written
... language thanks to my knowledge of German. The spoken language in a fast
... fire way is Greek to me.
Even when they speak slowly you have no better chance of understanding it. :-((
Dec 6th 2003, 10:08 am
#5
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Netherlands: Canal vs Gracht
On Sat, 6 Dec 2003 09:24:09 +0100, "Sjoerd" <[email protected]>
wrote:
[----]
>"Gracht" is not one of the easier words to pronounce, but we appreciate that
>you tried!
>Sjoerd
Can remember being told that Amsterdam has "acht en tachtig prachtige
grachten" (sp?) - eighty-eight beautiful canals - and that pronouncing
this gives rise to the legend that the Dutch have windscreen wipers on
the inside of their cars,....:-)
wrote:
[----]
>"Gracht" is not one of the easier words to pronounce, but we appreciate that
>you tried!
>Sjoerd
Can remember being told that Amsterdam has "acht en tachtig prachtige
grachten" (sp?) - eighty-eight beautiful canals - and that pronouncing
this gives rise to the legend that the Dutch have windscreen wipers on
the inside of their cars,....:-)
Dec 6th 2003, 10:19 am
#6
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Netherlands: Canal vs Gracht
"Keith Anderson" <[email protected]> schreef in bericht
news:[email protected]...
> On Sat, 6 Dec 2003 09:24:09 +0100, "Sjoerd" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> [----]
> >
> >"Gracht" is not one of the easier words to pronounce, but we appreciate
that
> >you tried!
> >
> >Sjoerd
> Can remember being told that Amsterdam has "acht en tachtig prachtige
> grachten" (sp?)
Spelling is perfect.
- eighty-eight beautiful canals - and that pronouncing
> this gives rise to the legend that the Dutch have windscreen wipers on
> the inside of their cars,....:-)
The windscreen wipers are only needed when a non-Dutch person tries to
pronounce that sentence.
Sjoerd
news:[email protected]...
> On Sat, 6 Dec 2003 09:24:09 +0100, "Sjoerd" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> [----]
> >
> >"Gracht" is not one of the easier words to pronounce, but we appreciate
that
> >you tried!
> >
> >Sjoerd
> Can remember being told that Amsterdam has "acht en tachtig prachtige
> grachten" (sp?)
Spelling is perfect.
- eighty-eight beautiful canals - and that pronouncing
> this gives rise to the legend that the Dutch have windscreen wipers on
> the inside of their cars,....:-)
The windscreen wipers are only needed when a non-Dutch person tries to
pronounce that sentence.
Sjoerd
Dec 6th 2003, 12:55 pm
#7
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Netherlands: Canal vs Gracht
"Sjoerd" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Gracht" is not one of the easier words to pronounce, but we appreciate
that
> you tried!
I can even say "Scheveningen"!
news:[email protected]...
> "Gracht" is not one of the easier words to pronounce, but we appreciate
that
> you tried!
I can even say "Scheveningen"!
Dec 6th 2003, 3:09 pm
#8
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Netherlands: Canal vs Gracht
"Dennis G. Rears" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> About a fortnight ago I was in the Netherlands. As is my custom I love
to
> talk to the locals and in the Nederlands that means English as I do not
> speak Dutch(netherlands). I find I can almost understand the written
> language thanks to my knowledge of German. The spoken language in a fast
> fire way is Greek to me.
> I do not speak Nederlands but can increasing read it and it is close to
> German. A favorite place of mine has become a Kino by Artis. It is by
Tram
> 9 stop Plantage Kirklange. I was speaking to some locals about the
language.
> Evidently a Gracht is a canal by a city. Also the Nederland word for
canal
> is canal which is different than a gracht. The reason I am posting at
first
> the people did not know what I was saying. I had to show them a map of
> Amsterdam and point out the word. After that I had a few people trying
to
> pronounce the gutteral gr sound.
> I learned my lesson speak only english. When I tried speakiong gracht
in
> a bar they had no idea what I was talking about.
> dennis
There are of course lots of Dutch words describing different sorts of
waterways.
Kanaal
Gracht
Sloot
Vaart
Rivier
Kreek
Maybe a "real" Dutchman such as Sjoerd can give an explanation (in English
of course) of all of these plus any others I may have missed.
Gerrit - Oz
news:[email protected]...
> About a fortnight ago I was in the Netherlands. As is my custom I love
to
> talk to the locals and in the Nederlands that means English as I do not
> speak Dutch(netherlands). I find I can almost understand the written
> language thanks to my knowledge of German. The spoken language in a fast
> fire way is Greek to me.
> I do not speak Nederlands but can increasing read it and it is close to
> German. A favorite place of mine has become a Kino by Artis. It is by
Tram
> 9 stop Plantage Kirklange. I was speaking to some locals about the
language.
> Evidently a Gracht is a canal by a city. Also the Nederland word for
canal
> is canal which is different than a gracht. The reason I am posting at
first
> the people did not know what I was saying. I had to show them a map of
> Amsterdam and point out the word. After that I had a few people trying
to
> pronounce the gutteral gr sound.
> I learned my lesson speak only english. When I tried speakiong gracht
in
> a bar they had no idea what I was talking about.
> dennis
There are of course lots of Dutch words describing different sorts of
waterways.
Kanaal
Gracht
Sloot
Vaart
Rivier
Kreek
Maybe a "real" Dutchman such as Sjoerd can give an explanation (in English
of course) of all of these plus any others I may have missed.
Gerrit - Oz
Dec 8th 2003, 3:47 am
#9
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Netherlands: Canal vs Gracht
"Magda" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sat, 06 Dec 2003 05:13:30 GMT, in rec.travel.europe, "Dennis G. Rears"
> <[email protected]> arranged some electrons, so they looked like
this :
> ... About a fortnight ago I was in the Netherlands. As is my custom I
love to
> ... talk to the locals and in the Nederlands that means English as I do
not
> ... speak Dutch(netherlands). I find I can almost understand the written
> ... language thanks to my knowledge of German. The spoken language in a
fast
> ... fire way is Greek to me.
> Even when they speak slowly you have no better chance of understanding it.
:-((
I have to disagree. I have gone to a lot of Nederland's productions.
Artis zoo, IMAX, etc. However, if they decide they don't want you to
understand, you will not. They will speak so fast so you can't understand
them. On the Nederland railways they have a free publication that I can
almost make out. Written stuff I can read.
Germans on the other hand, speak the same as always. They do not care if
you can read it or not. I can read German better than I can speak it, but I
grew up in Berlin (74-78). I used to think in German now it have to
translate. What I like about the Neederlands is everyone speaks English,
except for the immigrants. I am still pissed off about having to take the
train to Rotterdam instead of getting off at Den Hague. I do realize it
was my fault not anyone else's.
dennis
BTW. I love to bring back European beers to the USA. My last trip I
brought back 18 cans/bottles of beer and a Russian bottle of Vodka. I was
really pissed off to finally realize what "alcoholvrij" means. Alcohol
free. I brought back three bottles back. Forget about the cost. It is the
weight that counts. vrij is similiar to frei, I guess.
news:[email protected]...
> On Sat, 06 Dec 2003 05:13:30 GMT, in rec.travel.europe, "Dennis G. Rears"
> <[email protected]> arranged some electrons, so they looked like
this :
> ... About a fortnight ago I was in the Netherlands. As is my custom I
love to
> ... talk to the locals and in the Nederlands that means English as I do
not
> ... speak Dutch(netherlands). I find I can almost understand the written
> ... language thanks to my knowledge of German. The spoken language in a
fast
> ... fire way is Greek to me.
> Even when they speak slowly you have no better chance of understanding it.
:-((
I have to disagree. I have gone to a lot of Nederland's productions.
Artis zoo, IMAX, etc. However, if they decide they don't want you to
understand, you will not. They will speak so fast so you can't understand
them. On the Nederland railways they have a free publication that I can
almost make out. Written stuff I can read.
Germans on the other hand, speak the same as always. They do not care if
you can read it or not. I can read German better than I can speak it, but I
grew up in Berlin (74-78). I used to think in German now it have to
translate. What I like about the Neederlands is everyone speaks English,
except for the immigrants. I am still pissed off about having to take the
train to Rotterdam instead of getting off at Den Hague. I do realize it
was my fault not anyone else's.
dennis
BTW. I love to bring back European beers to the USA. My last trip I
brought back 18 cans/bottles of beer and a Russian bottle of Vodka. I was
really pissed off to finally realize what "alcoholvrij" means. Alcohol
free. I brought back three bottles back. Forget about the cost. It is the
weight that counts. vrij is similiar to frei, I guess.
Dec 8th 2003, 3:51 am
#10
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Netherlands: Canal vs Gracht
"Gerrit 't Hart" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Dennis G. Rears" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > About a fortnight ago I was in the Netherlands. As is my custom I
love
> to
> > talk to the locals and in the Nederlands that means English as I do not
> > speak Dutch(netherlands). I find I can almost understand the written
> > language thanks to my knowledge of German. The spoken language in a
fast
> > fire way is Greek to me.
> > I do not speak Nederlands but can increasing read it and it is close
to
> > German. A favorite place of mine has become a Kino by Artis. It is by
> Tram
> > 9 stop Plantage Kirklange. I was speaking to some locals about the
> language.
> > Evidently a Gracht is a canal by a city. Also the Nederland word for
> canal
> > is canal which is different than a gracht. The reason I am posting at
> first
> > the people did not know what I was saying. I had to show them a map of
> > Amsterdam and point out the word. After that I had a few people trying
> to
> > pronounce the gutteral gr sound.
> >
> > I learned my lesson speak only english. When I tried speakiong gracht
> in
> > a bar they had no idea what I was talking about.
> >
> > dennis
> >
> >
> There are of course lots of Dutch words describing different sorts of
> waterways.
> Kanaal
> Gracht
> Sloot
> Vaart
> Rivier
> Kreek
> Maybe a "real" Dutchman such as Sjoerd can give an explanation (in English
> of course) of all of these plus any others I may have missed.
What is the word to describe the waterways on the train ride to
Rotterdam/Den Hague from Schiphol? I say boring. This is worse than the
train/plane ride on the Australian continent.
dennis
news:[email protected]...
> "Dennis G. Rears" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > About a fortnight ago I was in the Netherlands. As is my custom I
love
> to
> > talk to the locals and in the Nederlands that means English as I do not
> > speak Dutch(netherlands). I find I can almost understand the written
> > language thanks to my knowledge of German. The spoken language in a
fast
> > fire way is Greek to me.
> > I do not speak Nederlands but can increasing read it and it is close
to
> > German. A favorite place of mine has become a Kino by Artis. It is by
> Tram
> > 9 stop Plantage Kirklange. I was speaking to some locals about the
> language.
> > Evidently a Gracht is a canal by a city. Also the Nederland word for
> canal
> > is canal which is different than a gracht. The reason I am posting at
> first
> > the people did not know what I was saying. I had to show them a map of
> > Amsterdam and point out the word. After that I had a few people trying
> to
> > pronounce the gutteral gr sound.
> >
> > I learned my lesson speak only english. When I tried speakiong gracht
> in
> > a bar they had no idea what I was talking about.
> >
> > dennis
> >
> >
> There are of course lots of Dutch words describing different sorts of
> waterways.
> Kanaal
> Gracht
> Sloot
> Vaart
> Rivier
> Kreek
> Maybe a "real" Dutchman such as Sjoerd can give an explanation (in English
> of course) of all of these plus any others I may have missed.
What is the word to describe the waterways on the train ride to
Rotterdam/Den Hague from Schiphol? I say boring. This is worse than the
train/plane ride on the Australian continent.
dennis
Dec 8th 2003, 6:19 am
#11
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Netherlands: Canal vs Gracht
"Dennis G. Rears" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
SNIP
> BTW. I love to bring back European beers to the USA. My last trip I
> brought back 18 cans/bottles of beer and a Russian bottle of Vodka. I was
> really pissed off to finally realize what "alcoholvrij" means. Alcohol
> free. I brought back three bottles back. Forget about the cost. It is
the
> weight that counts. vrij is similiar to frei, I guess.
"Alcoholvrij" Vodka? :-) :-)
Gerrit
news:[email protected]...
SNIP
> BTW. I love to bring back European beers to the USA. My last trip I
> brought back 18 cans/bottles of beer and a Russian bottle of Vodka. I was
> really pissed off to finally realize what "alcoholvrij" means. Alcohol
> free. I brought back three bottles back. Forget about the cost. It is
the
> weight that counts. vrij is similiar to frei, I guess.
"Alcoholvrij" Vodka? :-) :-)
Gerrit
Dec 8th 2003, 6:23 am
#12
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Netherlands: Canal vs Gracht
"Dennis G. Rears" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
SNIP
> What is the word to describe the waterways on the train ride to
> Rotterdam/Den Hague from Schiphol? I say boring. This is worse than the
> train/plane ride on the Australian continent.
> dennis
Stirrer!!!
news:[email protected]...
SNIP
> What is the word to describe the waterways on the train ride to
> Rotterdam/Den Hague from Schiphol? I say boring. This is worse than the
> train/plane ride on the Australian continent.
> dennis
Stirrer!!!
Dec 15th 2003, 8:29 pm
#13
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Netherlands: Canal vs Gracht
Sjoerd wrote:
>
>
> "Gracht" is not one of the easier words to pronounce, but we appreciate that
> you tried!
>
> Sjoerd
Hi,
I've found that the dutch just about fall all over themself when they
find someone that actually tries to learn just a LITTLE nederlands... or
just a LITTLE about dutch culture... and it can be as silly as bringing
ORANGE sweatshirts for queen's day.
tot ziens (sp?)
akia
--
DERRINGER KIT SIDEPLATES
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=3646132251
>
>
> "Gracht" is not one of the easier words to pronounce, but we appreciate that
> you tried!
>
> Sjoerd
Hi,
I've found that the dutch just about fall all over themself when they
find someone that actually tries to learn just a LITTLE nederlands... or
just a LITTLE about dutch culture... and it can be as silly as bringing
ORANGE sweatshirts for queen's day.
tot ziens (sp?)
akia
--
DERRINGER KIT SIDEPLATES
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=3646132251
Dec 17th 2003, 12:55 pm
#14
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Netherlands: Canal vs Gracht
Anonymouse <[email protected]> writes:
> I've found that the dutch just about fall all over themself when they
> find someone that actually tries to learn just a LITTLE
> nederlands... or just a LITTLE about dutch culture... and it can be as
> silly as bringing ORANGE sweatshirts for queen's day.
I've found that they look impatiently and scornfully at you for
wasting precious seconds of their time if you speak a few words of
Nederlands, then they switch straight to English (or whichever
language can be used to relieve you most efficiently of the biggest
amount of money in the smallest possible time). Maybe I should get
out of Amsterdam more. :-)
--
-- Chris.
> I've found that the dutch just about fall all over themself when they
> find someone that actually tries to learn just a LITTLE
> nederlands... or just a LITTLE about dutch culture... and it can be as
> silly as bringing ORANGE sweatshirts for queen's day.
I've found that they look impatiently and scornfully at you for
wasting precious seconds of their time if you speak a few words of
Nederlands, then they switch straight to English (or whichever
language can be used to relieve you most efficiently of the biggest
amount of money in the smallest possible time). Maybe I should get
out of Amsterdam more. :-)
--
-- Chris.
