Andre Duncam

Hi EveryOne

I went through some of the emails ob this newsgroups, and I have sensed what I went
through when I was in Autralia. For the people who are dreaming about the sunny and
warm beaches during the cold and dark winter nights in UK or elsewhere, I advise to
think twice before making the mistake of their life. No all that glitter is gold,
Australia is worth a visit but not making it a permanent home. The country is lagging
behind Europe in every important term. Economically, Australia will not make true
your dreams as you expect. No jobs and no prospect, it might the future Argentina in
the future. Ask yourselves, why Aussies are leaving their Australian paradise for
other parts of the world. Whereever you go, you find aussies in Europe looking for a
loaf of bread to earn, becauser simply there are no jobs over there (in OZ). In
London alone, there are about 250 000 of them
(www.aussieinlondon.com) , coming to look
for jobs and secure some pounds. I worked in many companies, and in all of them you
encounter Aussies. I visit many European countries, and in all of them you see
Aussies pubs. I visited California, and in many Americans, there are Aussies working
over there, some jobs include washing dishes.

Economically, Australia will not offer the kinf of rosy prospect your looking for.
Aussies are smart in marketing the image of their country through beaches and so on.
I will not make the mistake of sacrificing my future as the expense of swimming in
the gold coast. I make enough money in Europe to choose from different great
destination, but still keeping my job and living in Europe. I spent 3 months and
finally came to my senses and decided to come back to Europe where life really
matters, I felt exiled over there, trying hard to secure an IT job (Java developer)
at puny and meager salary, it is indeed a heavy price to pay for seeking sunny
weather and good beaches. Simply, they are no jobs over there and the people are
second-hand class and pretty conservative. I am not the only one who decided to come
back to Europe, many did again. Actually, they are many Aussies who are leaving the
country for good. I love it here in Europoe, at least and I am economically safe and
my kids future is rosier them in Brisbane or Sydney.

Duncan

Lisa Simmonds

as a person that is leaving australia to move to america :

I fell in love with my fiance, that happens to be an american - hence i am
immigrating to the US.

It is NOT because I don't like australia, I do. There are opportunities here... ya
gotta know where to look, and work hard.. its not a free ride.

My fiance would gladly move here, but he has two houses over there, and me leaving is
easier financially than him leaving. So i am going over there

-- Lisa

"andre duncam" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
com...
    : Hi EveryOne
    :
    : I went through some of the emails ob this newsgroups, and I have sensed what I went
    : through when I was in Autralia. For the people who are dreaming about the sunny and
    : warm beaches during the cold and dark winter nights in UK or elsewhere, I advise to
    : think twice before making the mistake of their life. No all that glitter is gold,
    : Australia is worth a visit but not making it a permanent home. The country is
    : lagging behind Europe in every important term. Economically, Australia will not
    : make true your dreams as you expect. No jobs and no prospect, it might the future
    : Argentina in the future. Ask yourselves, why Aussies are leaving their Australian
    : paradise for other parts of the world. Whereever you go, you find aussies in Europe
    : looking for a loaf of bread to earn, becauser simply there are no jobs over there
    : (in OZ). In London alone, there are about 250 000 of them
    : (www.aussieinlondon.com) , coming to
    : look for jobs and secure some pounds. I worked in many companies, and in all of
    : them you encounter Aussies. I visit many European countries, and in all of them you
    : see Aussies pubs. I visited California, and in many Americans, there are Aussies
    : working over there, some jobs include washing dishes.
    :
    : Economically, Australia will not offer the kinf of rosy prospect your looking for.
    : Aussies are smart in marketing the image of their country through beaches and so
    : on. I will not make the mistake of sacrificing my future as the expense of swimming
    : in the gold coast. I make enough money in Europe to choose from different great
    : destination, but still keeping my job and living in Europe. I spent 3 months and
    : finally came to my senses and decided to come back to Europe where life really
    : matters, I felt exiled over there, trying hard to secure an IT job (Java developer)
    : at puny and meager salary, it is indeed a heavy price to pay for seeking sunny
    : weather and good beaches. Simply, they are no jobs over there and the people are
    : second-hand class and pretty conservative. I am not the only one who decided to
    : come back to Europe, many did again. Actually, they are many Aussies who are
    : leaving the country for good. I love it here in Europoe, at least and I am
    : economically safe and my kids future is rosier them in Brisbane or Sydney.
    :
    : Duncan

Beebee

Duncan, i totally agree with what you said. Australia definitely definitely is not a
good place. I am actually from Hong Kong, and I lived in America for 7 years. I
decided to give myself a break, so I quited my job and came to melbourne for a master
degree. Well, this is all a joke. I never come to Australia and I thought it should
be a good place. I was so damn disappointed after i arrived. The general standard
is far behind Hong Kong and of course the US.

I attended the so-called "the best" university in Melbourne or even Australia. Well,
it is another joke. The school is not organized and unqualified. They just try to
grab your moeny and use it to promote the university. I discussed with various
students from US and we all agreed this is totally under-qualified. the state
university I attended in the states was far better than this one. Anyway, this is
the worst decision I 've made so far in my life.

For me, an outsider's point of view, there are no hopes in Australia. There are many
better places in the world you can stay. Really think twice before you make teh
decision. 20 million people ... what can you do??? I am a IT professional as well.
I think the telephone and the network infrastructure is sick. The thing I really
can't accept is that many Australian still think that they are smart and
high-standard, compared to the rest of the world. Well, it's up to you...


"andre duncam" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
com...
    > Hi EveryOne
    > I went through some of the emails ob this newsgroups, and I have sensed what I went
    > through when I was in Autralia. For the people who are dreaming about the sunny and
    > warm beaches during the cold and dark winter nights in UK or elsewhere, I advise to
    > think twice before making the mistake of their life. No all that glitter is gold,
    > Australia is worth a visit but not making it a permanent home. The country is
    > lagging behind Europe in every important term. Economically, Australia will not
    > make true your dreams as you expect. No jobs and no prospect, it might the future
    > Argentina in the future. Ask yourselves, why Aussies are leaving their Australian
    > paradise for other parts of the world. Whereever you go, you find aussies in Europe
    > looking for a loaf of bread to earn, becauser simply there are no jobs over there
    > (in OZ). In London alone, there are about 250 000 of them
    > (www.aussieinlondon.com) , coming to
    > look for jobs and secure some pounds. I worked in many companies, and in all of
    > them you encounter Aussies. I visit many European countries, and in all of them you
    > see Aussies pubs. I visited California, and in many Americans, there are Aussies
    > working over there, some jobs include washing dishes.
    > Economically, Australia will not offer the kinf of rosy prospect your looking for.
    > Aussies are smart in marketing the image of their country through beaches and so
    > on. I will not make the mistake of sacrificing my future as the expense of swimming
    > in the gold coast. I make enough money in Europe to choose from different great
    > destination, but still keeping my job and living in Europe. I spent 3 months and
    > finally came to my senses and decided to come back to Europe where life really
    > matters, I felt exiled over there, trying hard to secure an IT job (Java developer)
    > at puny and meager salary, it is indeed a heavy price to pay for seeking sunny
    > weather and good beaches. Simply, they are no jobs over there and the people are
    > second-hand class and pretty conservative. I am not the only one who decided to
    > come back to Europe, many did again. Actually, they are many Aussies who are
    > leaving the country for good. I love it here in Europoe, at least and I am
    > economically safe and my kids future is rosier them in Brisbane or Sydney.
    > Duncan

Medusa

Hello Andre,

You have an interesting point. I myself have been thinking about moving to Australia
from North America. Right now, I live in Montreal and I had lived in Boston and San
Diego. As you had said, when I was travelling through North America, I also met
quite a few Australians working in...well...not so good job. I guessed that was for
travel money and basic needs.

I have not been there but that beaches and nice weather sounds very tempting. I had
talked to one my friend in Sydney about my intentions. He got shocked and said, "Are
you crazy? Australia might be a place for vacation but coming here for oppourunity
and better work compared to North America is a joke." He also emphasized that many
educated Australians would love to work in North America and Europe.

I guess that he is saying the right thing since he is there and working in hi-tech
field. I have also been hearing about Australia's attitude towards to other races
and nationalities. For example, one another friend of mine...he is third generation
Canadian from Alberta went to visit Sydney for the olympics. He, by the ethnic
orgin, is Oriental. He said that people's attitude, lest put is nicely, were not so
good..specially towards non-anglo-saxon races. That sound pretty conservative.

Don't get me wrong here. I am not trying to put Australia down...it is just the
things that I have heard and read over some time. If it is otherwise, I would like
to hear those points of views.

AD

"andre duncam" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
com...
    > Hi EveryOne
    > I went through some of the emails ob this newsgroups, and I have sensed what I went
    > through when I was in Autralia. For the people who are dreaming about the sunny and
    > warm beaches during the cold and dark winter nights in UK or elsewhere, I advise to
    > think twice before making the mistake of their life. No all that glitter is gold,
    > Australia is worth a visit but not making it a permanent home. The country is
    > lagging behind Europe in every important term. Economically, Australia will not
    > make true your dreams as you expect. No jobs and no prospect, it might the future
    > Argentina in the future. Ask yourselves, why Aussies are leaving their Australian
    > paradise for other parts of the world. Whereever you go, you find aussies in Europe
    > looking for a loaf of bread to earn, becauser simply there are no jobs over there
    > (in OZ). In London alone, there are about 250 000 of them
    > (www.aussieinlondon.com) , coming to
    > look for jobs and secure some pounds. I worked in many companies, and in all of
    > them you encounter Aussies. I visit many European countries, and in all of them you
    > see Aussies pubs. I visited California, and in many Americans, there are Aussies
    > working over there, some jobs include washing dishes.
    > Economically, Australia will not offer the kinf of rosy prospect your looking for.
    > Aussies are smart in marketing the image of their country through beaches and so
    > on. I will not make the mistake of sacrificing my future as the expense of swimming
    > in the gold coast. I make enough money in Europe to choose from different great
    > destination, but still keeping my job and living in Europe. I spent 3 months and
    > finally came to my senses and decided to come back to Europe where life really
    > matters, I felt exiled over there, trying hard to secure an IT job (Java developer)
    > at puny and meager salary, it is indeed a heavy price to pay for seeking sunny
    > weather and good beaches. Simply, they are no jobs over there and the people are
    > second-hand class and pretty conservative. I am not the only one who decided to
    > come back to Europe, many did again. Actually, they are many Aussies who are
    > leaving the country for good. I love it here in Europoe, at least and I am
    > economically safe and my kids future is rosier them in Brisbane or Sydney.
    > Duncan

Rob

In <[email protected]> BeeBee wrote:
    > For me, an outsider's point of view, there are no hopes in Australia. There are
    > many better places in the world you can stay.

You say you're from Hong Kong and imply it is much better than Oz. From what I've
seen of HK, I'd hate it. I hate overcrowding and city life. I'm sure I'd want to get
back on the plane within 24 hours of getting there. It's definitely not for me, nor
is London, Paris, LA or New York. I have a computing background but would prefer open
space and scenery to 3G phone networks, the latest plasma TV or a toilet seat that
blow dries my arse any day.

If you measure a country's appeal on the levels of technology in use then you're not
typical of most of the people here who are looking to move to Oz. I'm not looking for
a Jetsons-esque world.

    > 20 million people ... what can you do???

What's that supposed to mean ?

    > The thing I really can't accept is that many Australian still think that they
    > are smart

Are you saying they're dumb ?

    > and high-standard, compared to the rest of the world. Well, it's up to you...

Compared to most of the world, Aus is high-tech and high-standard. Compared to HK,
Japan and parts of the US it lags behind, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.

Jean Philippe Brianchon

It depends what your are looking for, all the courtries are not the best place in the
world. What is more important in your life to make a lot of money with a 'good job'
or to visite some another place by working there.

Of corse a lot Australiens work out of their coutries, like a lot Canadien, French,
Spanish, etc...

It is the human nature to discover another things. You have to keep your move like
expirience, if you don't like it you come back at home, the more important things is
not to travel for leaving something but to found something.


It depends of your goal....



"andre duncam" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de news:
[email protected]...
    > Hi EveryOne
    > I went through some of the emails ob this newsgroups, and I have sensed what I went
    > through when I was in Autralia. For the people who are dreaming about the sunny and
    > warm beaches during the cold and dark winter nights in UK or elsewhere, I advise to
    > think twice before making the mistake of their life. No all that glitter is gold,
    > Australia is worth a visit but not making it a permanent home. The country is
    > lagging behind Europe in every important term. Economically, Australia will not
    > make true your dreams as you expect. No jobs and no prospect, it might the future
    > Argentina in the future. Ask yourselves, why Aussies are leaving their Australian
    > paradise for other parts of the world. Whereever you go, you find aussies in Europe
    > looking for a loaf of bread to earn, becauser simply there are no jobs over there
    > (in OZ). In London alone, there are about 250 000 of them
    > (www.aussieinlondon.com) , coming to
    > look for jobs and secure some pounds. I worked in many companies, and in all of
    > them you encounter Aussies. I visit many European countries, and in all of them you
    > see Aussies pubs. I visited California, and in many Americans, there are Aussies
    > working over there, some jobs include washing dishes.
    > Economically, Australia will not offer the kinf of rosy prospect your looking for.
    > Aussies are smart in marketing the image of their country through beaches and so
    > on. I will not make the mistake of sacrificing my future as the expense of swimming
    > in the gold coast. I make enough money in Europe to choose from different great
    > destination, but still keeping my job and living in Europe. I spent 3 months and
    > finally came to my senses and decided to come back to Europe where life really
    > matters, I felt exiled over there, trying hard to secure an IT job (Java developer)
    > at puny and meager salary, it is indeed a heavy price to pay for seeking sunny
    > weather and good beaches. Simply, they are no jobs over there and the people are
    > second-hand class and pretty conservative. I am not the only one who decided to
    > come back to Europe, many did again. Actually, they are many Aussies who are
    > leaving the country for good. I love it here in Europoe, at least and I am
    > economically safe and my kids future is rosier them in Brisbane or Sydney.
    > Duncan

Rohan Jackson

Really BeeBee,

You are deluding yourself. Australia may not have choking polution, overcrowding,
human "refuse"in the streets, appalling inequality or lepors begging for food, but
then again we are "far behind Hong Kong". As far as technology, telephone networks or
standards of living and infrastructure, why don't you check out either the UN's 2002
findings on standards of living or the world competitiveness index. Australia ranks
5th out of 180 countries for standards of living and infrastructure, ahead of the US
and Hong Kong. As far as your comments about education...how good is Hong Kong if you
have to go abroad for an education? You need a healthy dose of perspective

"BeeBee" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > Duncan, i totally agree with what you said. Australia definitely
definitely
    > is not a good place. I am actually from Hong Kong, and I lived in America for 7
    > years. I decided to give myself a break, so I quited my job and
came
    > to melbourne for a master degree. Well, this is all a joke. I never come to
    > Australia and I thought it should be a good place. I was so damn disappointed
    > after i arrived. The general standard is far behind Hong
Kong
    > and of course the US.
    > I attended the so-called "the best" university in Melbourne or even Australia.
    > Well, it is another joke. The school is not organized and unqualified. They just
    > try to grab your moeny and use it to promote the university. I discussed with
    > various students from US and we all agreed this is totally under-qualified. the
    > state university I attended in the states was far better than this one. Anyway,
    > this is the worst decision I 've made so far in my life.
    > For me, an outsider's point of view, there are no hopes in Australia.
There
    > are many better places in the world you can stay. Really think twice
before
    > you make teh decision. 20 million people ... what can you do??? I am a
IT
    > professional as well. I think the telephone and the network infrastructure is
    > sick. The thing I really can't accept is that many Australian still think that
    > they are smart and high-standard, compared to the rest of the world. Well, it's
    > up to you...
    > "andre duncam" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
    > gle.com    ...
    > > Hi EveryOne
    > >
    > > I went through some of the emails ob this newsgroups, and I have sensed what I
    > > went through when I was in Autralia. For the people who are dreaming about the
    > > sunny and warm beaches during the cold and dark winter nights in UK or elsewhere,
    > > I advise to think twice before making the mistake of their life. No all that
    > > glitter is gold, Australia is worth a visit but not making it a permanent home.
    > > The country is lagging behind Europe in every important term. Economically,
    > > Australia will not make true your dreams as you expect. No jobs and no prospect,
    > > it might the future Argentina in the future. Ask yourselves, why Aussies are
    > > leaving their Australian paradise for other parts of the world. Whereever you go,
    > > you find aussies in Europe looking for a loaf of bread to earn, becauser simply
    > > there are no jobs over there (in OZ). In London alone, there are about 250 000 of
    > > them (www.aussieinlondon.com) ,
    > > coming to look for jobs and secure some pounds. I worked in many companies, and
    > > in all of them you encounter Aussies. I visit many European countries, and in all
    > > of them you see Aussies pubs. I visited California, and in many Americans, there
    > > are Aussies working over there, some jobs include washing dishes.
    > >
    > > Economically, Australia will not offer the kinf of rosy prospect your looking
    > > for. Aussies are smart in marketing the image of their country through beaches
    > > and so on. I will not make the mistake of sacrificing my future as the expense of
    > > swimming in the gold coast. I make enough money in Europe to choose from
    > > different great destination, but still keeping my job and living in Europe. I
    > > spent 3 months and finally came to my senses and decided to come back to Europe
    > > where life really matters, I felt exiled over there, trying hard to secure an IT
    > > job (Java developer) at puny and meager salary, it is indeed a heavy price to pay
    > > for seeking sunny weather and good beaches. Simply, they are no jobs over there
    > > and the people are second-hand class and pretty conservative. I am not the only
    > > one who decided to come back to Europe, many did again. Actually, they are many
    > > Aussies who are leaving the country for good. I love it here in Europoe, at least
    > > and I am economically safe and my kids future is rosier them in Brisbane or
    > > Sydney.
    > >
    > > Duncan

Robert Edwards

spot on Lisa

"Lisa Simmonds" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > as a person that is leaving australia to move to america :
    > I fell in love with my fiance, that happens to be an american - hence i am
    > immigrating to the US.
    > It is NOT because I don't like australia, I do. There are opportunities here... ya
    > gotta know where to look, and work hard.. its not a free ride.
    > My fiance would gladly move here, but he has two houses over there, and me leaving
    > is easier financially than him leaving. So i am going over there
    
    > -- Lisa

Robert Edwards

The underlying factor here with people who are disgruntled with Australia seems to be
money.........if one reads between the lines and whatever else they write though I
accept Australia isn't for everyone and if you do not have the right attitude there
is no point being here Loved you comment about the toilet seats too as if we all
should aspire to own one lol Rob2 "rob" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
.net...
    > In <[email protected]> BeeBee wrote:
    > >
    > > For me, an outsider's point of view, there are no hopes in Australia. There are
    > > many better places in the world you can stay.
    > You say you're from Hong Kong and imply it is much better than Oz. From what I've
    > seen of HK, I'd hate it. I hate overcrowding and city life. I'm sure I'd want to
    > get back on the plane within 24 hours of getting there. It's definitely not for me,
    > nor is London, Paris, LA or New York. I have a computing background but would
    > prefer open space and scenery to 3G phone networks, the latest plasma TV or a
    > toilet seat that blow dries my arse any day.
    > If you measure a country's appeal on the levels of technology in use then you're
    > not typical of most of the people here who are looking to move to Oz. I'm not
    > looking for a Jetsons-esque world.
    > > 20 million people ... what can you do???
    > What's that supposed to mean ?
    > > The thing I really can't accept is that many Australian still think that they
    > > are smart
    > Are you saying they're dumb ?
    > > and high-standard, compared to the rest of the world. Well, it's up to you...
    > Compared to most of the world, Aus is high-tech and high-standard. Compared to HK,
    > Japan and parts of the US it lags behind, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.

Robert Edwards

Can't argue with that it was mentioned in my post a few weeks ago......I think money
is the underlying factor here Rohan

"Rohan Jackson" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
om.au...
    > Really BeeBee,
    > You are deluding yourself. Australia may not have choking polution, overcrowding,
    > human "refuse"in the streets, appalling inequality or lepors begging for food, but
    > then again we are "far behind Hong Kong". As far as technology, telephone networks
    > or standards of living and infrastructure, why don't you check out either the UN's
    > 2002 findings on standards of
living
    > or the world competitiveness index. Australia ranks 5th out of 180
countries
    > for standards of living and infrastructure, ahead of the US and Hong Kong. As far
    > as your comments about education...how good is Hong Kong if you
have
    > to go abroad for an education? You need a healthy dose of perspective

Robert Edwards

You may be right but also Australian probably more than a lot of other countries tend
to have that travel bug and like to travel around the world and will do anything to
earn a quid/buck to pay for it.......it's part of education many of us have done
it.There are some great places to visit in Europe and many of us have an Anglo
background so we are drawn back to our "roots" if you like and of course the US is an
"interesting" place in itself......but god I love this place......this Australia

"Medusa" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:Les79.6781$P%[email protected]...
    > Hello Andre,
    > You have an interesting point.

Beebee

Rohan,

It is good to hear your comments. Couple things that I need to clarify:

1) According to the US News and Asia Weeks, there are at least 3 universities in Hong
Kong rank better than the No. 1 Australia university. You just don't understand.
The reason why there are so many students coming oversees like Singapore, Hong
Kong, China .... It is not because there are no good universities in their places,
but it is because the standard is too high and very competitive that we can't get
in. Australia is a good choice because we can get in to the universities here
without big efforts and outstanding academic records. In addition, most of the
people prefer to go US and England, but it is just too expensive over there. In
Hong Kong, if you are holding a degree from AU, particularly undergraduate, it is
nit easy to find a job, compared to other oversee qualification like the US and
the UN...it is lesser value.

2) For me, I just treated this one year as a long vacation. i don't expect I can
really learn many stuff anyway in th euniversity, but the standard is again, far
below that what I expected. They just charge you this, charge you that...

3) UN's 2002 findings - Sorry I did not read this, but somwhow when it comes to the
issue to measure the performance of a whole country, I personally don't believe it
and I rather believe in what I see ...

4) Final comments: a) I used modem connection when i did my undergraduate degree in
US 10 years ago, and I had been using broadband connection in Hong Kong for 3
years (price is much cheaper here), i can't imaigne I still need to use the modem
again and paying $20 for that. b) I never expect there are 2 exact same subjects
and same professors and same materials (well, many of the techers are only
lectures, not even professors) offered for both the undergraduate and
post-graduate, but i see this in Australia ... This is how they grab your money.
c) The good thing about the universities is that they really know how to advertise
themselves in other countries and spend much money in it without thinking
improving the resources for the students. d) There are, of course, still
oppotunities. they must bring in more people to this place.

Thanks.

"Rohan Jackson" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
om.au...
    > Really BeeBee,
    > You are deluding yourself. Australia may not have choking polution, overcrowding,
    > human "refuse"in the streets, appalling inequality or lepors begging for food, but
    > then again we are "far behind Hong Kong". As far as technology, telephone networks
    > or standards of living and infrastructure, why don't you check out either the UN's
    > 2002 findings on standards of
living
    > or the world competitiveness index. Australia ranks 5th out of 180
countries
    > for standards of living and infrastructure, ahead of the US and Hong Kong. As far
    > as your comments about education...how good is Hong Kong if you
have
    > to go abroad for an education? You need a healthy dose of perspective
    > "BeeBee" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > > Duncan, i totally agree with what you said. Australia definitely
    > definitely
    > > is not a good place. I am actually from Hong Kong, and I lived in
America
    > > for 7 years. I decided to give myself a break, so I quited my job and
    > came
    > > to melbourne for a master degree. Well, this is all a joke. I never
come
    > > to Australia and I thought it should be a good place. I was so damn disappointed
    > > after i arrived. The general standard is far behind Hong
    > Kong
    > > and of course the US.
    > >
    > > I attended the so-called "the best" university in Melbourne or even Australia.
    > > Well, it is another joke. The school is not organized and unqualified. They
    > > just try to grab your moeny and use it to promote the university. I discussed
    > > with various students from US and we all agreed this is totally under-qualified.
    > > the state university I attended in the states was far better than this one.
    > > Anyway, this is the worst decision
I
    > > 've made so far in my life.
    > >
    > > For me, an outsider's point of view, there are no hopes in Australia.
    > There
    > > are many better places in the world you can stay. Really think twice
    > before
    > > you make teh decision. 20 million people ... what can you do??? I am a
    > IT
    > > professional as well. I think the telephone and the network
infrastructure
    > > is sick. The thing I really can't accept is that many Australian still think
    > > that they are smart and high-standard, compared to the rest of the world. Well,
    > > it's up to you...
    > >
    > >
    > > "andre duncam" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:b58fa2f9.0208170334.68a473d2@posting-
    > > .google.com    ...
    > > > Hi EveryOne
    > > >
    > > > I went through some of the emails ob this newsgroups, and I have sensed what I
    > > > went through when I was in Autralia. For the people who are dreaming about the
    > > > sunny and warm beaches during the cold and dark winter nights in UK or
    > > > elsewhere, I advise to think twice before making the mistake of their life. No
    > > > all that glitter is gold, Australia is worth a visit but not making it a
    > > > permanent home. The country is lagging behind Europe in every important term.
    > > > Economically, Australia will not make true your dreams as you expect. No jobs
    > > > and no prospect, it might the future Argentina in the future. Ask yourselves,
    > > > why Aussies are leaving their Australian paradise for other parts of the world.
    > > > Whereever you go, you find aussies in Europe looking for a loaf of bread to
    > > > earn, becauser simply there are no jobs over there (in OZ). In London alone,
    > > > there are about 250 000 of them
    > > > (www.aussieinlondon.com) , coming
    > > > to look for jobs and secure some pounds. I worked in many companies, and in all
    > > > of them you encounter Aussies. I visit many European countries, and in all of
    > > > them you see Aussies pubs. I visited California, and in many Americans, there
    > > > are Aussies working over there, some jobs include washing dishes.
    > > >
    > > > Economically, Australia will not offer the kinf of rosy prospect your looking
    > > > for. Aussies are smart in marketing the image of their country through beaches
    > > > and so on. I will not make the mistake of sacrificing my future as the expense
    > > > of swimming in the gold coast. I make enough money in Europe to choose from
    > > > different great destination, but still keeping my job and living in Europe. I
    > > > spent 3 months and finally came to my senses and decided to come back to Europe
    > > > where life really matters, I felt exiled over there, trying hard to secure an
    > > > IT job (Java developer) at puny and meager salary, it is indeed a heavy price
    > > > to pay for seeking sunny weather and good beaches. Simply, they are no jobs
    > > > over there and the people are second-hand class and pretty conservative. I am
    > > > not the only one who decided to come back to Europe, many did again. Actually,
    > > > they are many Aussies who are leaving the country for good. I love it here in
    > > > Europoe, at least and I am economically safe and my kids future is rosier them
    > > > in Brisbane or Sydney.
    > > >
    > > > Duncan
    > >
    > >

sophia

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Beebee:
Rohan,

It is good to hear your comments. Couple things that I need to clarify:

1) According to the US News and Asia Weeks, there are at least 3 universities in Hong
Kong rank better than the No. 1 Australia university. You just don't understand.
The reason why there are so many students coming oversees like Singapore, Hong
Kong, China .... It is not because there are no good universities in their places,
but it is because the standard is too high and very competitive that we can't get
in. Australia is a good choice because we can get in to the universities here
without big efforts and outstanding academic records. In addition, most of the
people prefer to go US and England, but it is just too expensive over there. In
Hong Kong, if you are holding a degree from AU, particularly undergraduate, it is
nit easy to find a job, compared to other oversee qualification like the US and
the UN...it is lesser value.

2) For me, I just treated this one year as a long vacation. i don't expect I can
really learn many stuff anyway in th euniversity, but the standard is again, far
below that what I expected. They just charge you this, charge you that...

3) UN's 2002 findings - Sorry I did not read this, but somwhow when it comes to the
issue to measure the performance of a whole country, I personally don't believe it
and I rather believe in what I see ...

4) Final comments: a) I used modem connection when i did my undergraduate degree in
US 10 years ago, and I had been using broadband connection in Hong Kong for 3
years (price is much cheaper here), i can't imaigne I still need to use the modem
again and paying $20 for that. b) I never expect there are 2 exact same subjects
and same professors and same materials (well, many of the techers are only
lectures, not even professors) offered for both the undergraduate and
post-graduate, but i see this in Australia ... This is how they grab your money.
c) The good thing about the universities is that they really know how to advertise
themselves in other countries and spend much money in it without thinking
improving the resources for the students. d) There are, of course, still
oppotunities. they must bring in more people to this place.

Thanks.

*************************************************

Hmmm, Beebee,

I've read your posts with some interest but feel I need to interject at this point....Soooo let me get this straight, the universities in your home country are too "difficult" for you so you think you'll "slum" it, get an Australian uni degree which, by the way YOU think is PANTS????

No wonder you're not widely accepted there, you've got a severe attitude problem...that's why you're having difficulties settling in....If I were to come to Hong Kong (not that I would you understand...way too crowded and polluted) and start spouting off how fantastically brilliant the UK and Oz are and how shit HK is, I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised to find people upset with me. You need to get a proper life mate!

Oh and btw I'm an Australian who lives is the UK, but is counting down the days until I return to Australia!!

love sophia xx

Beebee

This is only my comments, if you don't like it, that's fine, but please don't do any
personal attack. is this the Aussie style??? What I said here is the truth or you
can check it out yourself. I just want to raise my concerns and tell the truth to
you people. I did not make up the facts. The fact is that the top universities in
HK are difficult to get in (same in Singapore) and there are many students waiting
to get in to the universities and going oversees is the option. Again, everyone
knows that the export of degrees is one of the biggest "industry" in Australia,
don't you agree?? I can't imaigne how AU would be without the foreign students
coming here to study.

If you don't agree on my points below, feel free to speak up, but in not your style
which try to start a war and insult others.

I did not say that I cannot get in to the universitites in Hong Kong, but i was
telling you the trend and the fact that why there are so many foreign students coming
here, based on the facts. I chose AU because i am a perosn who likes to travel
around and explore different cultures. If I could do it again and know the situation
here, I would not do so.

I am telling you the fact and the truth out there. If you have a hard time to
accept it, sorry this is a real world ....

"sophia" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > Originally posted by Beebee:
    > > Rohan,
    > >
    > > It is good to hear your comments. Couple things that I need to clarify:
    > >
    > > 1) According to the US News and Asia Weeks, there are at least 3 universities in
    > > Hong Kong rank better than the No. 1 Australia university. You just don't
    > > understand. The reason why there are so many students coming oversees like
    > > Singapore, Hong Kong, China .... It is not because there are no good
    > > universities in their places, but it is because the standard is too high and
    > > very competitive that we can't get
    > > in. Australia is a good choice because we can get in to the universities here
    > > without big efforts and outstanding academic records. In addition, most
    > > of the people prefer to go US and England, but it is just too expensive
    > > over there. In Hong Kong, if you are holding a degree from AU,
    > > particularly undergraduate, it is nit easy to find a job, compared to
    > > other oversee qualification like the US and the UN...it is lesser value.
    > >
    > > 2) For me, I just treated this one year as a long vacation. i don't expect I can
    > > really learn many stuff anyway in th euniversity, but the standard is again,
    > > far below that what I expected. They just charge you this, charge you that...
    > >
    > > 3) UN's 2002 findings - Sorry I did not read this, but somwhow when it comes to
    > > the issue to measure the performance of a whole country, I personally don't
    > > believe it and I rather believe in what I see ...
    > >
    > > 4) Final comments: a) I used modem connection when i did my undergraduate degree
    > > in US 10 years ago, and I had been using broadband connection in Hong Kong for
    > > 3 years (price is much cheaper here), i can't imaigne I still need to use the
    > > modem again and paying $20 for that. b) I never expect there are 2 exact same
    > > subjects and same professors and same materials (well, many of the techers are
    > > only lectures, not even professors) offered for both the undergraduate and
    > > post-graduate, but i see this in Australia ... This is how they grab your
    > > money.
    > > c) The good thing about the universities is that they really know how to
    > > advertise themselves in other countries and spend much money in it without
    > > thinking improving the resources for the students. d) There are, of
    > > course, still oppotunities. they must bring in more people to this place.
    > >
    > > Thanks.
    > >
    > > *************************************************
    > >
    > > Hmmm, Beebee,
    > >
    > > I've read your posts with some interest but feel I need to interject at this
    > > point....Soooo let me get this straight, the universities in your home country
    > > are too "difficult" for you so you think you'll "slum" it, get an Australian uni
    > > degree which, by the way YOU think is PANTS????
    > >
    > > No wonder you're not widely accepted there, you've got a severe attitude
    > > problem...that's why you're having difficulties settling
    > > in....If I were to come to Hong Kong (not that I would you understand...way too
    > > crowded and polluted) and start spouting off how fantastically brilliant the
    > > UK and Oz are and how shit HK is, I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised to
    > > find people upset with me. You need to get a proper life mate!
    > >
    > > Oh and btw I'm an Australian who lives is the UK, but is counting down the days
    > > until I return to Australia!!
    > >
    > > love sophia xx
    > --
    > Posted via http://britishexpats.com

Rohan Jackson

BeeBee,

Firstly, I have never heard of "US News and Asia Weeks", and I find that doubtful
about 3 universities in HK better. You complain about being charged for this and
that, yet you say that going to the US or the UK is too expensive. You are
complaining about either scenario...you seem very bitter. Secondly, your comments
about not learning anything are defeatist and egotistical. I again doubt that
statement. Having said that though I am upset about what I perceive as falling
standards at Australian Universities, I blame this on the current Government
withdrawing money from the higher Ed sector. This is short-sighted. Thirdly, the UN
findings are published every year, by an independent panel of experts, based on
facts. So I would be more inclined to believe that than any one person's opinion.
However having said that I was shocked at how high Hong Kong was on the list. I have
been to HK many times for business, and the place still has a long way to go. Walking
in the streets I was struck by the amount of rubbish in the dirty streets. The
appalling smell of rotting food, and human "waste". Seeing lepers begging for food.
The poor quality of food (especially meat) and water, the choking haze of pollution
from millions of people crammed into an area that would fit into a corner of
Melbourne. The dehumanising high rise jungle where noone has a garden, or any space.
As far as infrastructure in IT was concerned, not being able to get emails from a
local mirror of WorldCom (before they went bust) for a week! because the servers were
down??? or congested was beyond belief. Doing business with people in Engineering,
who were tertiary and postgraduate qualified in HK universities, who didn't even
know, let alone understand basic concepts. They had zero practical application
experience, and could not solve basic problems. I have experienced this time after
time after time. My experiences of HK and its people are sadly.....very poor.

Fourthly, broadband is available through 90% of Australian telephone exchanges via
ADSL, and the availability of cable (I have cable at home, and my work has a T1). I
do concede that it is expensive compared to the US or probably HK. That is due to the
tyranny of distance, massive country and relatively small population.

Fifthly, the ability of someone to teach is not governed by whether or not they are
professors or just lecturers. I do not believe they need to bring in more people
just better organise the current system and fund it better. When I did my honours
degree in engineering we had 3 exchange students in my small course (24 students, 1
from the US, 1 from the UK and 1 from Germany). The guy from the US said he had
never worked so hard in all his life and that his University in the States was much
"Easier". He came from Penn State considered the best in Engineering in the US. The
Lady from the UK said that it was similar to home except there were more contact
hours, and our friend from Germany stated that things were very different except the
workload was similar.

My experiences differ vastly from yours! Telling people there are no hopes in
Australia is nonsense, and you should be ashamed. There are people all over the world
who would sell their mothers to come here


"BeeBee" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > Rohan,
    > It is good to hear your comments. Couple things that I need to clarify:


    > 1) According to the US News and Asia Weeks, there are at least 3 universities in
    > Hong Kong rank better than the No. 1 Australia university. You just don't
    > understand. The reason why there are so many students
coming
    > oversees like Singapore, Hong Kong, China .... It is not because there are no good
    > universities in their places, but it is because the standard is
too
    > high and very competitive that we can't get in. Australia is a good
choice
    > because we can get in to the universities here without big efforts and outstanding
    > academic records. In addition, most of the people prefer to
go
    > US and England, but it is just too expensive over there. In Hong Kong, if you are
    > holding a degree from AU, particularly undergraduate, it is nit
easy
    > to find a job, compared to other oversee qualification like the US and the UN...it
    > is lesser value.
    > 2) For me, I just treated this one year as a long vacation. i don't
expect
    > I can really learn many stuff anyway in th euniversity, but the standard
is
    > again, far below that what I expected. They just charge you this, charge
    > you that...
    > 3) UN's 2002 findings - Sorry I did not read this, but somwhow when it
comes
    > to the issue to measure the performance of a whole country, I personally don't
    > believe it and I rather believe in what I see ...
    > 4) Final comments: a) I used modem connection when i did my undergraduate degree in
    > US 10 years ago, and I had been using broadband connection in
Hong
    > Kong for 3 years (price is much cheaper here), i can't imaigne I still
need
    > to use the modem again and paying $20 for that. b) I never expect there
are
    > 2 exact same subjects and same professors and same materials (well, many
of
    > the techers are only lectures, not even professors) offered for both the
    > undergraduate and post-graduate, but i see this in Australia ... This is
how
    > they grab your money. c) The good thing about the universities is that
they
    > really know how to advertise themselves in other countries and spend much money in
    > it without thinking improving the resources for the students. d) There are, of
    > course, still oppotunities. they must bring in more people
to
    > this place.
    > Thanks.
    > "Rohan Jackson" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
    > et.com.au    ...
    > > Really BeeBee,
    > >
    > > You are deluding yourself. Australia may not have choking polution, overcrowding,
    > > human "refuse"in the streets, appalling inequality or
lepors
    > > begging for food, but then again we are "far behind Hong Kong". As far
as
    > > technology, telephone networks or standards of living and
infrastructure,
    > > why don't you check out either the UN's 2002 findings on standards of
    > living
    > > or the world competitiveness index. Australia ranks 5th out of 180
    > countries
    > > for standards of living and infrastructure, ahead of the US and Hong
Kong.
    > > As far as your comments about education...how good is Hong Kong if you
    > have
    > > to go abroad for an education? You need a healthy dose of perspective
    > >
    > > "BeeBee" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > > > Duncan, i totally agree with what you said. Australia definitely
    > > definitely
    > > > is not a good place. I am actually from Hong Kong, and I lived in
    > America
    > > > for 7 years. I decided to give myself a break, so I quited my job and
    > > came
    > > > to melbourne for a master degree. Well, this is all a joke. I never
    > come
    > > > to Australia and I thought it should be a good place. I was so damn
    > > > disappointed after i arrived. The general standard is far behind Hong
    > > Kong
    > > > and of course the US.
    > > >
    > > > I attended the so-called "the best" university in Melbourne or even Australia.
    > > > Well, it is another joke. The school is not organized and unqualified. They
    > > > just try to grab your moeny and use it to promote
the
    > > > university. I discussed with various students from US and we all
agreed
    > > > this is totally under-qualified. the state university I attended in
the
    > > > states was far better than this one. Anyway, this is the worst
decision
    > I
    > > > 've made so far in my life.
    > > >
    > > > For me, an outsider's point of view, there are no hopes in Australia.
    > > There
    > > > are many better places in the world you can stay. Really think twice
    > > before
    > > > you make teh decision. 20 million people ... what can you do??? I am
a
    > > IT
    > > > professional as well. I think the telephone and the network
    > infrastructure
    > > > is sick. The thing I really can't accept is that many Australian
still
    > > > think that they are smart and high-standard, compared to the rest of
the
    > > > world. Well, it's up to you...
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > "andre duncam" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:b58fa2f9.0208170334.68a473d2@pos-
    > > > ting.google.com    ...
    > > > > Hi EveryOne
    > > > >
    > > > > I went through some of the emails ob this newsgroups, and I have sensed what
    > > > > I went through when I was in Autralia. For the people who are dreaming about
    > > > > the sunny and warm beaches during the cold and dark winter nights in UK or
    > > > > elsewhere, I advise to think twice before making the
mistake
    > > > > of their life. No all that glitter is gold, Australia is worth a visit but
not
    > > > > making it a permanent home. The country is lagging behind Europe in every
    > > > > important term. Economically, Australia will not make true your dreams as you
    > > > > expect. No jobs and no prospect, it might the future Argentina in the
future.
    > > > > Ask yourselves, why Aussies are leaving their Australian paradise
for
    > > > > other parts of the world. Whereever you go, you find aussies in Europe
    > > > > looking for a loaf of bread to earn, becauser simply there are no jobs over
there
    > > > > (in OZ). In London alone, there are about 250 000 of them
    > > > > (www.aussieinlondon.com) , coming
    > > > > to look for jobs and secure some pounds. I worked in many companies, and in
    > > > > all of them you encounter Aussies. I visit many European countries, and in
    > > > > all of them you see Aussies pubs. I visited California, and in many
    > > > > Americans, there are Aussies working over there, some jobs include washing
    > > > > dishes.
    > > > >
    > > > > Economically, Australia will not offer the kinf of rosy prospect
your
    > > > > looking for. Aussies are smart in marketing the image of their country
through
    > > > > beaches and so on. I will not make the mistake of sacrificing my future as
the
    > > > > expense of swimming in the gold coast. I make enough money in Europe to
    > > > > choose from different great destination, but still keeping my job and living
    > > > > in Europe. I spent 3 months and finally came to my senses and decided to come
    > > > > back to Europe where life really matters, I felt exiled over there, trying
    > > > > hard to secure an IT job (Java developer) at puny and meager salary, it is
    > > > > indeed a heavy price to pay for seeking sunny weather and good beaches.
    > > > > Simply, they are no jobs over there and the people are second-hand class and
    > > > > pretty conservative. I am not the only one who decided to come back to
    > > > > Europe, many did again. Actually, they are many Aussies who are leaving the
    > > > > country for
good.
    > > > > I love it here in Europoe, at least and I am economically safe and
my
    > > > > kids future is rosier them in Brisbane or Sydney.
    > > > >
    > > > > Duncan
    > > >
    > > >
    > >
    > >