[RenShen]

Hello all,

I was wondering if somebody could help me with this one or provide a link for me to look it up?

My boss is getting a bit Nazi about work at the moment and seems to have it in for my colleague. Granted, she is not that reliable but she has been ill herself and her children have been ill to so she has had a bit of time off lately.

My boss has told her now that if one of her kids is ill she needs to get a medical certificate for the child and give it to him to prove the reason for her absence.

Surely this is overstepping the mark? I am a bit worried because we are the only two that work for him and so I am assuming that the rule applies to me too. I am not off very often but if one of the kids was sick, I would be. But, as we know with kids, its often a virus or something and I would not consider taking them to the doc just for that. Does this now mean that I have to drag my kids to the doc if they have a tummy upset just to show my boss?

She had to leave the office on Friday when her son's daycare rang to say he had head lice. She went home, treated him, took him back to daycare and got back to work by 3pm. The boss then rang the daycare facility to check her story and had a go at the manager about their policy and that his member of staff lost time because of it!!!!

I am new to the Australian jobs market so am a bit clueless when it comes to my rights, and I have not needed to question this before so I hope somebody can help.

Also, what are the rules on providing a sick cert for your self? Is it from day 1 or only after a certain amount of days off?

I am on a temp contract the end of Feb and will by signing up for permanent from then.

Thanks,
Ren

[quoll]

You should be employed under a certified agreement which specifies how much leave you are entitled to and the conditions under which that leave may be granted. Usually they ask for a certificate for every absence but will accept that that isnt always possible and so you may get 2 consecutive days without a certificate. If someone has been taking a lot of time off on carers leave then it is quite usual for an employer to ask for evidence that they are actually caring for someone who is sick.

If they havent given you one, they should have given you a copy of your working conditions when you were employed

[bcworld]

In my experience policies regarding evidence for sick leave are much stricter here than the UK. The policy is often quite specific as well - it can be that you need a certificate for any days absence either side of a weekend or public holiday. A contract may also having a clause basically allowing the employer to request one regardless of the general rules - as Quoll said, the details should be in your contract.

[hoofie2002]

Originally Posted by RenShen The boss then rang the daycare facility to check her story and had a go at the manager about their policy and that his member of staff lost time because of it!!!!

He has seriously overstepped the mark there. The daycare facility should not have discussed ANY issue with the manager to start with.

I think your colleague needs to speak to their HR department or someone similar as that could be considered as harrassment.

[BAY]

Originally Posted by hoofie2002 He has seriously overstepped the mark there. The daycare facility should not have discussed ANY issue with the manager to start with. I think your colleague needs to speak to their HR department or someone similar as that could be considered as harrassment.

Steady on there hoofie, I think you're overstepping the mark.

The manager is trying to run a business. If his emplyees don't turn up for work then he can't run the business !! The collegue has had a lot of time off work and he is rightly concerned and justified in checking the reason for time taken off was valid.

[Dorothy]

Originally Posted by BAY Steady on there hoofie, I think you're overstepping the mark. The manager is trying to run a business. If his emplyees don't turn up for work then he can't run the business !! The collegue has had a lot of time off work and he is rightly concerned and justified in checking the reason for time taken off was valid.

I would be seriously pissed if my manager called my children's daycare. Even more pissed if my children's daycare discussed my child with him. Yes, the colleage has had time off work, but it's an issue between the manager and his employee.

Honestly, I would speak to my HR department if I found out my manager rang around to check up on where I was. They can ask for a sick note if I tell them I'm sick, however checking on my movements is overstepping boundaries.

[BAY]

Originally Posted by Dorothy I would be seriously pissed if my manager called my children's daycare. Even more pissed if my children's daycare discussed my child with him. Yes, the colleage has had time off work, but it's an issue between the manager and his employee. Honestly, I would speak to my HR department if I found out my manager rang around to check up on where I was. They can ask for a sick note if I tell them I'm sick, however checking on my movements is overstepping boundaries.

Sounds as though the manager is getting exasperatd at the amount of time off.

'Granted, she is not that reliable but she has been ill herself and her children have been ill to so she has had a bit of time off lately.'

Agreed though, the manager should follow the correct procedures and not phone up the daycare centre, who should not discuss what should be confidential information. If the manager follows the correct procedures then verbal and written warnings can be given before firing the person.

[knockoff nige]

I was under the impression that taking sick days is part of working in Australia. In October 08, before I was working, I saw some blokes on the news saying it was too hot for work so decided to pull a sickie. Where I work, we've hardly ever got a full team. Going home sick seems to be very common. Just enough time to get to the beach.

This definitely isnt my style but I'm amazed at just how accepted it is here. It often interferes with rest of the team as we may need them around of 1 reason or another, such as yesterday. But, maybe its a case of, if you cant beat them, join them.

[Dorothy]

Originally Posted by BAY Sounds as though the manager is getting exasperatd at the amount of time off. 'Granted, she is not that reliable but she has been ill herself and her children have been ill to so she has had a bit of time off lately.' Agreed though, the manager should follow the correct procedures and not phone up the daycare centre, who should not discuss what should be confidential information. If the manager follows the correct procedures then verbal and written warnings can be given before firing the person.

If I were her manager I would be getting exasperated too. That doesn't make calling the daycare acceptable behaviour, though.

[ABCDiamond]

Originally Posted by RenShen Hello all, I was wondering if somebody could help me with this one or provide a link for me to look it up? My boss is getting a bit Nazi about work at the moment and seems to have it in for my colleague. Granted, she is not that reliable but she has been ill herself and her children have been ill to so she has had a bit of time off lately. My boss has told her now that if one of her kids is ill she needs to get a medical certificate for the child and give it to him to prove the reason for her absence. Surely this is overstepping the mark? I am a bit worried because we are the only two that work for him and so I am assuming that the rule applies to me too. I am not off very often but if one of the kids was sick, I would be. But, as we know with kids, its often a virus or something and I would not consider taking them to the doc just for that. Does this now mean that I have to drag my kids to the doc if they have a tummy upset just to show my boss? She had to leave the office on Friday when her son's daycare rang to say he had head lice. She went home, treated him, took him back to daycare and got back to work by 3pm. The boss then rang the daycare facility to check her story and had a go at the manager about their policy and that his member of staff lost time because of it!!!! I am new to the Australian jobs market so am a bit clueless when it comes to my rights, and I have not needed to question this before so I hope somebody can help. Also, what are the rules on providing a sick cert for your self? Is it from day 1 or only after a certain amount of days off? I am on a temp contract the end of Feb and will by signing up for permanent from then. Thanks, Ren

Speaking as an ex employer, I can see why they are clamping down on the law with that employee.

It may come down to: Play fair with most employees and they play fair with you, otherwise, stuff your employer about, and they may do the same to you.

Employers have very few rights these days to easily get rid of staff, so sometimes they try to use whatever laws are available, no matter how petty some people may think. The employer may actually prefer to just sack the person, if they are that unreliable, but may not have sufficient legal grounds.

In QLD

Where the absence extends more than two days, the employee is required to give the employer a doctor's certificate outlining the nature of the illness and the approximate period of absence.

If the absence is due to a child in that persons care:

An employee can be required by their employer to produce a doctor's certificate and/or statutory declaration stating that the person being cared for is ill and requires care by another person.

So the employer is within his rights on that, but few would use that on a valuable employee.

[hoofie2002]

Originally Posted by BAY Steady on there hoofie, I think you're overstepping the mark. The manager is trying to run a business. If his emplyees don't turn up for work then he can't run the business !! The collegue has had a lot of time off work and he is rightly concerned and justified in checking the reason for time taken off was valid.

No I'm not. Querying an employees decision to take time off and requesting confirmation of the reason right and proper; calling someone's childcare provider for information is something else entirely - did he actually think they would discuss the child's information with him?

I've been in the position as an employer in the past where someone has been taking inordinate amounts of time off but I would never stoop to that level.

[iolande]

What is the sick leave entitlement of this employee and have they used up all of their entitlement? Sick leave is restricted under Australian law and most companies only give 10 paid days. Beyond that is discretionary. Note that she may have additional carers leave which cover her for the days she has had off on her children's behalf.

The contact of the child care centre is illegal due to Privacy reasons (correct me if I am wrong). But a request to the employee to prove that they are telling the truth may be permissible.

[Bermudashorts]

How can it be illegal to contact a daycare centre? I assume the daycare centre should not discuss the children they are looking after but it can't be illegal for manager to phone them and try.

There is a rather sloppy work ethic in Bermuda too, I was plagued by people in my department taking sickies and I told one of my team that going forward I wanted a sick note for every single day she took off and I also gave her a formal warning. This was after she took 16 non consecutive sick days in 9 months. Perhaps this person's manager was also at the end of his tolerance.

[RenShen]

Thank you so much for all your replies, very helpful.

The lady has I think 1 day left of sickness entitlement.

I have just read over my contract and it only makes reference to how much sick leave I am entitled to, not how it should be notified to management or proved so I am assuming that the statutory 2 days for a sick note must apply.

From what has been said on here, if my kids are ill and my manager requires proof I will offer him a stat dec. (Of course, if the kids are ill enough to go to the doc I will get a certificate but most of the time I dont take them unless they are extremely ill).

To be honest, the way he has treated her and also tarred me with the same brush (he has been so rude and grumpy the last couple of days) I think I will start to look for another job anyway.

Thanks again,
Ren

[norfolkpedlar]

Originally Posted by RenShen Thank you so much for all your replies, very helpful. The lady has I think 1 day left of sickness entitlement. I have just read over my contract and it only makes reference to how much sick leave I am entitled to, not how it should be notified to management or proved so I am assuming that the statutory 2 days for a sick note must apply. From what has been said on here, if my kids are ill and my manager requires proof I will offer him a stat dec. (Of course, if the kids are ill enough to go to the doc I will get a certificate but most of the time I dont take them unless they are extremely ill). To be honest, the way he has treated her and also tarred me with the same brush (he has been so rude and grumpy the last couple of days) I think I will start to look for another job anyway. Thanks again, Ren

Just dont get another job with her then!