South Africa does it again.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle5310007.ece

Truly they are unbelievers...to subject this misery on their own, they can't believe in anything.

Is it no wonder that people were forced to segregate from this barbarism in the 1600's.

Yes, barbarism is the word. As I have said before, those who will not govern well have no title to govern. The supposed crimes of the colonial era pale into insignificance when compared with what is going on here. As for Mugabe's claim to be a "freedom fighter", well that was exposed long ago for the cynical political slogan that it was.

Dishonour amongst thieves I'm afraid. Although to be fair, everyone else in the world is sitting on their hands. Talking about it will change nothing, and despite the right noises from Sarkozy, Milliband et al, nothing will change without some form of action.

Sadly, Zuma appears to be the lever in all this. If he continues Mbeki's "quiet diplomacy" we'll still be here in 10 years time. Pressure needs to be applied on JZ to act against Mad Bob - but as his recent behaviour has demonstrated, he doesn't give a toss what people think - the man has no shame.

It's a shame this isn't Iraq, Croatia or Afghanistan - then we'd send in the troops and free the world of one more nutjob.

The West has learnt its lesson with Africa. Intervene and you're called a racist, neo-colonialist and all the other blah; do nothing and leave Africans to sort themselves out and you're accused of doing nothing because you're a racist, etc.

Right now the West has bigger fish to fry. Mbeki and South Africa is largely responsible for the lack of action over the years; and though the West won't say so publicly, I suspect the view is that all those southern African countries that did nothing and applauded and supported Mugabe at every opportunity can now face the consequences of their inaction.

We see yet again the reality of African "liberation".

Bingo. The reassuring sound of chickens coming home to roost. Trouble is, people are dying - so now we'll see if the West has the moral backbone to do what has to be done. I very much doubt it.

So is "unbelievers" the accepted word now? I saw the other thread where this was discussed and kept my distance!!!

People are dying all over the place. Somalia, Nigeria, Congo, Sudan... you name it. It is the failure of Africa, and Africa's shame. The West is standing by to bail out Zim with great wads of my tax-pounds, but it is not going to go in with guns blazing. "African solution to African problems". Remember that?

It's not a question of moral backbone. It's a question of recognising the limits of intervention.

We managed to overcome those limits in Iraq... which was absolutely the right thing to do (and forget the lies about WMD - a well designed smokescreen). When a single person holds such sway in a country and begins to affect other (democratic) bordering countries then the world has to stand up and help. It is simply not an option to help put someone in power then walk away when he turns out to be a bad 'un. Well, I couldn't, anyway.

I agree guns blazing isn't the answer - but applying pressure on JZ is. Maybe they should take away his right to travel to the West until Mugabe has gone.

I'm still a UK taxpayer - I'd rather my money went on sorting out this problem than on some 17 year old unmarried mother of 3.

Midnight Special - you are a bad, bad man!

Ed, I agree with you about that vile creep.

As for the intervention thing, I'm afraid that 'well-designed smokescreen' stuff is just a conspiracy theory too far.

The whole move to 'international law', 'human rights' and world government will lead to the most dreadful tyranny - a tyranny from which there will be no escape, no safe haven.

And there is the rub - who will guard the guardians? And as the guardians would almost certainly be the USA and it's allies, one would question their altruistic motives. Power corrupts etc.

I do think history will judge Bush as being right to go into Iraq - but he couldn't do it without a mandate (or an excuse). Just my POV - but it will take a few years before the Arabic dust settles on that one.

Anyway - I'm off for a beer by the pool. I'll raise a glass to the dead in Zim, and thanking my lucky stars I'm not there. And tomorrow will be another day in paradise.

midnight special had us all chasing our tails for a while...what the...much like the ball breaker on this thread...the guys a nut!

And now the African Union has come out backing South Africa's do-nothing sit-on-your-hands stance with Zimbabwe. Really, it takes some effort to reduce Zim to the cesspool it has become, but hey, Mugabe really went that extra mile, didn't he?

Midnight Special - you are a bad, bad man!
Thanks for that Pablo, or should I say Dago, its a gift.
That I personally learned over the last 32 years traveling this wonderful continent watching the indiginie kill and eat each other, and the hand that fed the fookers, kill them all I say, and import Paddys

Have a nice day now Y'all

actually that was ededed.

so you are a racist...there are other forums out there apparantly- why don't you f off and do your job there.

Here we try our best not to be racists- admittedly its getting quite difficult with racist idiots like Mugabe , Mbeki etc, but if we become like them then what's the difference??????

Most are just desperate for some leadership to pull them out of the crap they are in.