smidsy

When I arrived here last June, I told myself I would never be "that guy" posting another one of these, "why cant I find a job" on BE, but here I am.....

This is partly advice given, but primarily seeking advice.

For me, previously!!!.....I have never had any issues finding a prestigious position, and advancing my career.

However, being new in Perth, its a different kettle of fish !!

I have been job hunting since early January, but no solid offers have arrived. We settled in Perth, in late Aug, and I set out a full time study until the exams mid Dec. Then of course took the Xmass/New years time off, and started seriously looking in Jan. At first, for the jobs I really wanted, then realised that wasn't going to happen, and went for the jobs I thought I could get around the end of Jan, hense the development.

Back home, If I took this long to get a job, I would be seen by friends & family and people who I was introduced to(its really embarrassing) as being simply a lazy sort for not having a job yet, or most likely, a person who has some "issues" and is unemployable, but everybody is too polite to say, but assumes there's some quirks that appear in your interview. Im getting this feeling off my Wife's colleagues at the moment(she's a nurse in RPH, and as her occupation is extremely short, she has no issues of employment, and is supporting me-for the first time ever !), and its really getting me down. I almost feel like screaming "YES I am worthy to be in your company, im just in a hard spot"

In saying that, when I first went on the job market, I was in BOOM-time Dublin, the world was my oyster.

In Perth, this is just how it is !!

I have been assessed as having a very high score on experience, appearance, and on my interview technique, phone manner and being personable & mannerly, while being a direct sort.

This doesnt help!!!

I think my issue is, im not an easy fix !

As in, im not a triangle to fit in the triangle hole, or a square in a square hole.

Im a mixed sort. And I really feel its those types that suffer in Perth.

To explain, I am an accountant. Or should I say, my skills/background is being an accountant. I am not an accountant as such. I am a business man, industrious type of guy. As in, I like the wheeling & dealing, the risk & reward, the entrepreneurial side of business. This is far from the stereotypical view of accountants, which is simple number crunchers. ie, happy to sit in the background, and watch what happens, while collecting there guaranteed salary, which wont change regardless of what they calculate.

Combined with this, Im ACCA.

ACCA is HUGH in UK & Ireland, but its sniffed at in Australia. Its considered a funny, something else. Basically, you MUST be CPA/CA qualified to get a job. While CA I personally highly regard...... CPA, is, in UK & Irl. considered a respectable, although quite a lower qualification, such as CIMA. I have no doubt, thats if I studied CPA, I would be qualified years ago(I wish I did).

ACCA is considered to be some silly funny Indian(as I was informed, even though its not, its UK), type qualification, which noone cares about or considers. Hmmmm

Added to this, I must admit, im not qualified ACCA. I have 2 exams left to do. Admitedly, I allowed myself to be distracted, and got a little complacent regarding my qualifications. Mostly because my career was taking off.

Your offered a choice, advance your career, or advance your exams, what do you choose ??

I choose, advance the career. Which would have been great back in Ireland/UK, but is highly disadvantagous in Australia.

I recognised this when I was in Queensland, and I should mention, although im 2 exams short, and I have recently returned to studying.
As there are no ACCA colleges in Aus, im studying via online, and im taking those 2 exams in June, having already taken exams in Dec.'11.

Anyway...

For job seekers...

In Australia, your previous non-Australian experience, is regarded with about 50% of what you did over the locals.

As in, I was a Financial Controller in Ireland, which say is worth 50 points(my madey uppy scoring system, nothing solid), but being a Financial Controller in Perth, is worth 100 points, maybe more!!

So what can I do ??

I have decided that what I would LOVE to work at is something like a Commercial Manager. Its a wide ranging title(ie. some requiring accounting or some requiring engineering backgrounds - very different context!), but I would be looking at the positions that require business/accounting background. A Commercial Manager, of the type im after, uses his financial/analytical skills, to analyse, improve the business, and requires his strategic & business acumen.

Excellent, im going for that, at what I was advised im worth of about $120k annual.

But, noone wants me !! I have no local(Perth) experience, so surely, by my lack of local experience, I have no idea how business works !!!

OK, ill take it on the chin, stand up, brush myself off and try again for something else, right so, ill go for a lower title, take a step down as everybody says you must, and go for Management accountant in a mining, or Oil & Gas, or engineering company, ill take $100k a year, there's plenty of jobs there !! Not there, right so, why dont I try Financial Manager, Financial Controller, or something like that ??

Nope, you dont have mining experience, so you not worthy. Added to that, we have 500+ people popping off the planes, from the east coast, every week. Who have australian experience, while your...."ahem"...limited.

Right so, I am unemployable, with no relavant experience, and my qualifications are worthless. I suppose my job will be full-time baby production for my wife, as I discovered I seem to be worthless otherwise to Australian society !!

For job seekers reading this....

-I bombarded seek.com.au with my cv, and got some "meet & greet" interviews
- Dont believe what recruitment agents say, any more than what you'd believe a used car dealer would say, its a "game" dont take it personal! (ie. Yea, im sure I can fit you in somewhere, I work 24 hours a day to get you a job) Yea right !
- Recruitment agents are not bad people, they're just overwhelmed by the aplications
-Recruitment agents need to have friendly relationships with both employers & employees, they have a hard job !!
- They might think your great, but they have to deal with prejudices of their clients, nothing you can control, just accept it !
- At the same time, most recruitment agents, dont have a clue about the industry/profession/skills and as such, simply skill match(think word search puzzles)
-Yes, its frustrating having a recruitment agent tell you your not suitable, when your know damn well you can do it !!
-If you get infront of the company, unlike UK/IRL the job isnt yours
-MOST IMPORTANT - your only as good as what you did before AND in the industry that you did it in !!!!!!

Thats significant, and seems to run through. Unlike, the Eastern States, and your home country. Just because you were this(A), doesnt mean you can be this(A+B). NO, NO, No, no, you can only ever be (A+B). Har dee har, your simply not worthy !

If you were a, say receptionist, you CAN ONLY EVER BE a receptionist. Never consider a personal assistant, a secretary, or going above your lever, as far as recruiters are concerened, YOUR A RECEPTIONIST, AND THATS ALL YOU"LL EVER BE !!

And unlike say UK/Irl, where you might have been in many different industries, in Perth, you can only be in 1. Yes thats right..... ONE !! So if you worked on shipping, they will only ever look to place you in SHIPPING !

I worked in food/meat production, which has me screwed in Perth, as there is no production of any kind !!

Im a brave man doing this, hanging my dirty laundry as such, but click this link to see my CV/profile.... (SNIP)

Bermudashorts

I had a few thoughts on that and the first is that it is not such a long time since January and everything is quiet at that time anyway with people being on leave etc. So don't beat yourself up about it.

Second is perhaps you shouldn't be dissing your occupation "accountants are bean counters" etc., that is a very old fashioned view of finance and perhaps you are coming across as a little arrogant, dismissing everyone else in the occupation as if you are the only accountant that is commercially minded. Of course sell this if you believe it is a particular strength of yours but take care how you do it. And I am only going off how you have come across here of course.

Next I think you should believe in your qualification and don't let anyone dismiss it. Australian CPA is a joke, open book, multiple choice exams. There is nobody going to tell me that it is better than ACCA. Before I moved people kept saying that I would have trouble and I didn't believe it for one second, I was always adamant that I would not apologise for my qualifications, which I did many years ago anyway and that I would use my overseas experience as a selling point not a disadvantage.

Finally perhaps it is not really clear what you want to do, "Commercial Manager" seems a bit vague? Perhaps you should look for a role in finance role that requires a highly commercial accountant and then perhaps once you have a foot in the door you can think about moving into a pure commercial role if you so desire.

Good luck.

smidsy

Cool, thanks for your imput. You made some very solid points !!!

Although, respectfully, if I might point out, I believe your doing what your advising me not to do(arrogant on CPA perhaps?). lol, dont get me wrong, I like strong opinions !! And especially strongly opinionated people !!

Anyway, I will respect accountants, when I meet some who I can respect. Thats sounds terrible, and awfully confrontational, I dont mean it that way. Its just having worked in an Audit Big 4, you get a poor impression of accountants. Lots of nepotism & hired "form fillers", or "bean counters".

I have to admit, I do sometimes come across as a "little arrogant", and I have heard that said. While others see it as passionate & ambitious. This was a reason I progressed substantially in my career in Dublin, but may be a disadvantage in Aus. I recognise that arrogance is hated here.

My old boss(MD of Ribworld, on my linkedin profile), was considered the most arrogant man I have ever met. But I saw it as confidence. And when you think about it... Perhaps, the difference between arrogance & confidence, is whether you like the person or not. As in, if you like them, they are confident & ambitious, but if you hate them, they are arrogant.

Anyway, thats a debate for another thread.

BTW, its not a long time since January, if your used to Perth ways. Im UK/IRL, thats a hugh amount of time !! The positions would be well filled buy now. But people who are used to Perth may think its normal. For me, im twiddling my tumbs the next day after a solid application, waiting on the call. Alas, it is not so ! They happen, when they happen!

Oh, having re-read, I thought I should add, in recruitment agency interviews, I mentioned, that although my lack of australian experience maybe a disadvantage locally, perhaps my INTERNATIONAL experience would be considered an ADVANTAGE ??

As in, I am well used to dealing in multiple currencies(Euro/GDP/DKK/US$/SEK) and adopting my systems to those requirements. I pointed out that that is not an easy task, but I was comfortable with it.

I also have to deal with different "accounting cultures", and it was up to me to adopt my systems to each culture, to create a harmony of systems.

Thats quite significant & impressive, but the recruitment consultant, met me with "rabbit eyes, caught in headlights". As in, it doesnt compute !!

At the same time, to be fair, those recruitment cunsultants cant balance their cheque books. But unenviably, they have been assigned to take over the accountancy & finance positions.

Its like asking me to interview scientists. It wont work !! And if I had to do it, I would simply resort to "box-tick" cv's

Actually, I would quit. But given it take 3 months to get a job in Perth, i'd probably hang on for 3 months, till i found something.

RESULT: EVERYBODY LOSES !

smidsy

The recruitment agencies ALL tell me that CPA is better, more prestigious, more sophistaced and more highly intellectually challenging in comparison to the silly ACCA !

ACCA is some stupid funny exam, something like one of the Aussie certs, your boss pays for you to do over a day or two.

Just how it is.

Blame ACCA Australia, not me, or the recruitment agents.

Im thinking of switching to CIMA, i'd probably just have to fill in a form. CPA, maybe ill have to smile also.

Damn, the arrogance is coming out

GarryP

I've tended to look at it like this, Australia is branch office land - but they consider themselves 'special'. By that I mean that the ethos and approach to business is akin to a branch office, rather than the main office. Things tend to be more handle turning than truly innovative. However those within these environments don't realise how behind they are, relative to the world stage, and consider that Australia is a rare and distinguished flower that you have to measure up to.

Outcome of that is they value pieces of paper over practical experience, and tend to focus on finding the right labelled cog to fit into a machine that's clockwork in a digital age.

So you see them looking for piece of paper they recognise, and experience in what they know - rather than attempting to benefit from those with things they DON'T know. New ideas, new knowledge, aren't valued - if anything they are something of a threat. That's where your ACCA qualification, when you get it, will fail. They reject what they don't know and you have to fight to twice to get them to take you seriously. It's illuminating to talk to the aussie hoard in London - the best and the brightest tend to leave in their early years to get jobs in Europe because, as was said to me, jobs in Australia are 'plodding'.

While you can keep applying for jobs in the hope you will find one of these returnees who have a wider perspective, I tend to think that you are better off turning this limitation of the national psyche to your advantage. That's particular true if you say you like 'the entrepreneurial side of business'. Can you create something, something that's better/newer than the existing Perth solutions? Can you make a startup out of it? Particularly in Perth I'd suggest there are cashed up types ripe for picking....err, I mean servicing.

One trick that I've found is groups that can be found in the vicinity via http://www.meetup.com/ . Various types of group, including many small business / entrepreneurial groups that you can talk with and potentially find someone of a like mind.

When you get lemons, make lemonade - or as I prefer; if Australian business is a manky old lemon, at least it's useful for a G'n'T.

slippery30

Burmuda shorts..i have been following your comments offlate. I have been on this forum for many years and in Australia since 2008 and having a real hard time advancing my career..

I am an accountant too and became member of ACCA long long time ago in 2003. To give abit more background..i am south asian origin having worked in Big4 there for 5 years before moving to Dublin before GFC. Had another stint at Big4 in FS for few years and headed to Australia around time irish economy sank. I have been trying to get into commercial/ financial accounting role for guess what...4 years now.!!!

Initially when i landed in melbourne in 2008...i found job in mid-tier firm audit firm. It wasnt what i was after..i was looking to move into financial accounting or commercial accounting role in a asx top 100/ blue chip. I thought my ACCA qualification and my previous Big4 experience particularly European experience would be highly valued. I Was so wrong...Well initial 2 years passed and after hundreds of seek.com.au ads and meeting every recruitment agent in melbourne, i got no offers. Initially i thought the reasons were in no particular order 1) my lack of Australian experience 2) My Australian experience was in a reputable Mid-tier accounting firm but not Big4 3) i did not have australian CA/CPA 4) Maybe the job market was bad.

Anyway after 2 years of trying and finding no luck...i moved to a BIG4.. hoping that Big4 Australian brand would help me in some years. Well guess what its now 2012 and after nearly 4 years of trying i have almost given up...

When i think deeply of the reasons of not being able to secure my dream job...the biggest that come to my mind is 1) i dont have local CA and 2) colour of my skin...

Any thoughts and bright ideas are wellcome..

Tr1boy

Completely incorrect. Mrs TB is CPA. In the UK a CPA can easily claim to be CIMA qual, but a CIMA in Oz can can NEVER claim CPA status. Reason is that a CIMA can be achieved without a degree in the UK but you can never be a CPA without having done a 4 yr Accounting degree first.

If you haven't done the hard yards for CPA, don't whinge about those that have.

JOE2010

This is depressing to read. I am an accountant and I have been in Perth for six years now, and while I agree it is not easy to break into the market, there could be other reasons for not getting a job, other than being a migrant and ACCA.

Here are my thoughts;

1) Have you tried contract/temping work? I was ex big 4, ACCA and my first job was an accounts clerk in an aged care facility. Some find it easier to get a job at the same level, others take a step down. Six years down the line, I am now a CA and work as a senior accountant with one of the top 5 ASX employers.

2) I find it interesting the way you dismiss Recruitment Agents, yet all the jobs I have worked have been through them. Some are even qualified accountants, the things you mention are of obvious about agents, but some are pretty good and they have placed a no. of my friends. I am not sure if that attitude helps.

3) Remember in Perth some employers are very specific – e.g they need a CA/CPA, mining experience, SAP, Prontos, Hyperion. I know an agent who has been looking for three positions for an Oil and Gas company and not able to get someone who ticks all the boxes. Also, if you are not yet qualified that may work big time against you – we have employed ACCA’s in the past but no way if they were part qualified (even if the part qual was CA or CPA).

4) Don’t beat yourself too add, it takes a while to get a job and if you are not selective on the industry three months is a short time.

Best wishes.

JOE2010

Is it not easy to network with your clients for a transition to commerce than trying through seek? On your second reason, I do not think race would be an issue, if you ticked all the boxes. I would do the CA if I were you.

ktm

Hi Bermudashorts,

I am following your reply in every thread related with ACCA. I really appreciate the way you helping the others. I am also the ACCA member recently migrated to Australia, currently residing in Sydney. But not having local education and experience finding little bit hard at present. Can i get your email address if possible. I need some one to check my resume if it is as per Australian Standard.

Thanking you!!!

commonwealth

It's hard when ur competing with locally qualified people esp if there are few jobs and many applicants.

lawre

It's very disheartening reading the post by new migrants not landing on a decent job with an ACCA qualification. In fact there are many out there facing the same predicaments me included. A majority of us are Asians and in our early 40's with almost 20 years of experience. I am asking myself this questions on and off what is exactly the problem?. I hope it is not whatever you called it discrimination.

smidsy

Fair enough, ill clarify the way I see it... as in my opinon, and opinion iv heard, applied in UK & Irl. But im open to correction!

1st - CA & ACCA - argueable which is first
2nd - CPA
3rd - CIMA

I dont know any others??

From what iv gathered how it is in Australia...
1st - CA & CPA
2nd - CIMA
3rd - ACCA - who ?

Also, and I dont know this personally, but last week a recruiter told me that a CIMA can apply for CPA recognition, and advertise themselves as a CPA. I emphasise, dont attack me, this is just what I was told !

commonwealth

some would argue CA is "more prestigious" than CPA because of the Global Accounting Alliance.

smidsy

Just to throw some advice out there.

The CV I started with in Jan, its completly different to what im using now, having been revamped several times.

Only because, I bombarded recruitment agencies, and through "meet & greet" interviews, a lot of them gave me opinions and "hints & tips" on my cv.

Although often conflicting, in general my first cv was about 85% of selling me & my skills, my new CV is 110% of selling me & my skills, as in putting me in the best light possible.

Honestly, its not lying, its all facts, but its fluff & frills, prefessionally done ! The same as what salesmen do. As in, i said its a Toyota car, they said... its from the top car producer in the world, Toyota. That kind of thing

What im saying is, you need to get face to face with recruiters & listen to their advice.

I should also mention, I have had lots of interviews in the last 2 weeks, and I really feel im 99% there for getting a job. Just the last bit to go !!