Education

Old Apr 21st 2014, 2:01 pm
  #61  
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Default Re: Education

Originally Posted by Bahtatboy
I guess we all have our own views. I disagree with state intervention in prices, except that I believe that critical, significant industries should be state run: health, education, main transportation and energy.
And there is the crux of it.

Social infrastructure (education, health and potentially some roads/trains, and LED slippers) should never be totally delivered by the private sector. It's too political and people have no idea of the costs of delivering these services -- hence all the moaning about school fees.

If the schools were good at making so much money there would be more of them and more providers.
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Old Apr 21st 2014, 2:31 pm
  #62  
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Default Re: Education

Originally Posted by Millhouse
If the schools were good at making so much money there would be more of them and more providers.
I think there is a good group investment case for private schools in Dubai to get over the high start up costs and building permission tomfoolery, which is what seems to limit the new entrants.
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Old Apr 21st 2014, 2:35 pm
  #63  
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Default Re: Education

Originally Posted by Bahtatboy
I guess we all have our own views. I disagree with state intervention in prices, except that I believe that critical, significant industries should be state run: health, education, main transportation and energy.
Indirectly through taxes, vat, border or customs tariffs, subsidies on raw materials, quotas, tax rebates on investments, employee payment schemes, fuel costs (with in built costs),etc. etc the state is intervening in almost every product you can name.
There is, in my opinion, no such thing as a free market.
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Old Apr 21st 2014, 2:39 pm
  #64  
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Default Re: Education

Originally Posted by weasel decentral
Indirectly through taxes, vat, border or customs tariffs, subsidies on raw materials, quotas, tax rebates on investments, employee payment schemes, fuel costs (with in built costs),etc. etc the state is intervening in almost every product you can name.
There is, in my opinion, no such thing as a free market.
I absolutely agree, but, in most instances, the purpose isn't price control.
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Old Apr 21st 2014, 2:59 pm
  #65  
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Default Re: Education

Originally Posted by weasel decentral
There is, in my opinion, no such thing as a free market.
I've seen Bahtatboy at 2am in The Trap. There is a free market with respect to some services and an opportunities to exploit price elasticity of demand.
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Old Apr 21st 2014, 3:04 pm
  #66  
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Default Re: Education

Originally Posted by Millhouse
I've seen Bahtatboy at 2am in The Trap. There is a free market with respect to some services and an opportunities to exploit price elasticity of demand.
That's not the only thing that was elastic.
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Old Apr 21st 2014, 3:10 pm
  #67  
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Default Re: Education

Originally Posted by Bahtatboy
I absolutely agree, but, in most instances, the purpose isn't price control.
If we follow the law of unintended consequences however it is what we get.
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Old Apr 21st 2014, 3:11 pm
  #68  
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Default Re: Education

Originally Posted by Millhouse
I've seen Bahtatboy at 2am in The Trap. There is a free market with respect to some services and an opportunities to exploit price elasticity of demand.
You may have just found the exception.
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Old Apr 21st 2014, 4:01 pm
  #69  
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Default Re: Education

Originally Posted by Bahtatboy
I'm not hiding, I'm trying to explain to you very basic economics. Few would disagree that controls are necessary--but if you're calling for the government to legislate "reasonableness" for what you're charged for your offspring's education, then you should also accept legislation to restrict the price for whatever products or services your and/or your spouse's employer sells, which might result in a lower income for you and/or your spouse.
I don't need you to explain basic economics to me, but maybe I do for you. The most basic theory is supply and demand. Now the demand for places is high but supply must outstrip demand because I don't hear of many children not being able to find a place. So if supply outstrips demand prices should be driven down.

I find it hard to stomach that you are justifying these guys massive bonuses by saying they can charge what they want because people will pay it. What choice do they have? The guy says as much in his interview, they will forgo food for school fees. Really you are standing behind this guy?

The more people that justify their case the stronger it becomes.
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Old Apr 21st 2014, 4:16 pm
  #70  
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Default Re: Education

Originally Posted by Dumbo
I don't need you to explain basic economics to me, but maybe I do for you. The most basic theory is supply and demand. Now the demand for places is high but supply must outstrip demand because I don't hear of many children not being able to find a place. So if supply outstrips demand prices should be driven down.

I find it hard to stomach that you are justifying these guys massive bonuses by saying they can charge what they want because people will pay it. What choice do they have? The guy says as much in his interview, they will forgo food for school fees. Really you are standing behind this guy?

The more people that justify their case the stronger it becomes.
Please re-read what I've written--nowhere did I attempt to justify what they're doing, so don't put words in my mouth. I was explaining how businesses operate in an economic framework.

If, as you assert, supply outstrips demand, why aren't prices driven down? Economics is working here, so there is something wrong (or rather, unrefined) in your assumption.
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Old Apr 21st 2014, 4:49 pm
  #71  
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Default Re: Education

Originally Posted by Bahtatboy
Please re-read what I've written--nowhere did I attempt to justify what they're doing, so don't put words in my mouth. I was explaining how businesses operate in an economic framework.

If, as you assert, supply outstrips demand, why aren't prices driven down? Economics is working here, so there is something wrong (or rather, unrefined) in your assumption.
I am more interested in the words that are not coming from your mouth tbh honest than the ones that are, or the ones I am putting there.

I know exactly what is wrong with the example of economic theory I gave. I was making a point, a bit like when people use statistics to their own agenda. Economic theories do not stand up on their own. If they did we would all know exactly when markets were likely to crash and what the fx will do tomorrow.

A free market is no justification for exploitation of any kind.

Last edited by Dumbo; Apr 21st 2014 at 4:58 pm.
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Old Apr 21st 2014, 4:57 pm
  #72  
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Default Re: Education

Originally Posted by Dumbo
I know exactly what is wrong with the example of economic theory I gave. I was making a point, a bit like when people use statistics to their own agenda. Economic theories do not stand up on their own. If they did we would all know exactly when markets were likely to crash and what the fx will do tomorrow.

A free market is no justification for exploitation of any kind.
Agreed
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Old Apr 22nd 2014, 8:46 am
  #73  
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Default Re: Education

Originally Posted by Bongoman2
But then you really do not know what you are talking about from a customer perspective at all other than your limited frame of reference.

Maybe you could answer this? Is your other half involved in any way with the "assessments"? I'd be interested if they have any basis in educational value other than pure $$. I paid 500dhs to have my son "observed at play" for 15 minutes then shooed away with a tick. It seems they have their own interests at heart rather than the students.

What is the regulation regarding schools taking registration fees? Is there a cutoff limit when they stop taking the cash when they know that the kid has no chance of getting to the top of the list for enrollment?

A spokesperson for GEMS, which has over two dozen schools, said: “At GEMS schools we aim to keep our waiting list numbers below 300, and once this number is reached, we close registrations for that year group. In some schools and in some year groups, the number of students on a waiting list could easily surpass 1,000, but the probability of them getting a place in that school is limited.” source
How?

No, she isn't. I've got no doubt in my mind that they are a complete waste of time. They just want to see the kid can speak English and isn't a lunatic I guess.

Do you not ask / get told how many people are on the waiting list ahead of you? I wouldn't be paying to register if there were 00's of kids ahead, it's a waste of money. I wouldn't be interested in paying to register if they didn't / wouldn't / couldn't tell me the size of the list either.

The registration fees and all that are just money makers.

I wonder if they were brought in x no of years ago to stop people just registering with every single school and to make them think harder about who they want their kid to go to? Who knows?

GEMs are a special sort of money-making-machine. There's no doubt about it. The only thing I think is good news is that the KHDA enforce increase limits to fees based on performance of the school - surely that's a good thing to parents?
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Old Apr 23rd 2014, 12:43 am
  #74  
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Default Re: Education

So we arrived back in June 2013 and the only school that had places was the still to be finished GEMS Wellington so we took the place even though it was over budget.
Junior tocks teacher has been awesome and I cannot knock the place in any way other than the fees
However junior along with most of his class will be leaving the school at the end of June as there is a ruck of new schools opening on the 40k a year mark. We know of quite a few of his mates who will be downgrading to GEMS Chernobyl (motor city) to stay with the brand however if you have driven a Granada, would you be happy with an escort?

We decided against GEMS not because of brand hatred but because we found something we liked more on budget which is an issue now that mini tock will be joining junior.

Ideally I would have loved to get them into JESS but that's never going to happen

Fees to register are a good thing as it shows some commitment and stops the place being flooded with applications that will never be materialised.
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Old Apr 23rd 2014, 5:40 am
  #75  
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Default Re: Education

what really pisses me off here is not the exorbitant and blatant profiteering but the attitude of most of the schools and many parents.

Your school is not in fact Eaton or Winchester and your precious kiddies are neither receiving the world best education nor are they all geniuses. In fact given the evidence they would appear to be a rather ignorant and impolite bunch of little shits.
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