[stew31]

Hello all, we are new to the site and wondered if anyone could offer any advice in relation to buying a plot of land we are interested in.

We have seen a plot in the Muro area which looks a good location, being just out of the town, but not too far, also within short driving distance to the beach etc.

We have been in contact with the agent and they seem pretty open and honest so far, and we are pretty pleased with this. However they are a 2hr flight away from us and we have never met them before. It is balearic properties, if anyone has any info regarding them wether good or bad it would be appreciated also.

The plot itself is going to be sold with planning and licence to build, or we can buy it without. However it has been recommended to us to purchase with a 'basic project' already in place including home plan, from here then to go into the project executive when ready, which expires after 2 years.

There is no way that if we purchase this land we will be ready to build within 2 years, and we are not overly worried about this, but what we dont want is to be in a position whereby we purchase with licences etc and it expires (hence why it was recommended to get the basic project in place). We are more than happy to purchase and build when ready. We are contacting a local solicitor to the pollensa area to see what they say, and if we are happy and confident then next step is to travel over for a couple of days and do some more research with the consideration to purchase.

If there is anyone who can offer any form of advice in relation to (area and what is planned more to the point, licence and planning or even on agents) then it would be appreciated. We have never pursued anything like this before, and are trying to cover all areas for it.

many thanks for your time

[amideislas]

OK, the good news:

Muro is a very nice area. Hard to go wrong, but the price depends on how far back from the beach you are. If the price is right and you're happy with it... well, you know what to do.

What to watch out for.

Buy it with a >confirmed< licence to build. Be sure to check EXACTLY what is licenced to build, in the worst case, it could be solely licenced to build a stable.

Go to the local ajuntament personally with a Spanish-speaking solicitor and find out the truth. These things have a funny way of being nothing like what they are respesented to be.

If your licence expires, it can be very complicated and expensive to get it back. Laws change frequently. But ask your solicitor - and by the way, it's always wise to spend some time with your solicitor find out more about them personally. Have dinner and drinks - it's a worthwhile investment.

Second, be sure to find out about utilities.

Electricity: We had some friends who bought a lovely house in the outback, which didn't have electricity, but the nearest distribution station was only 100 metres away.

When they purchased the house, they were assured that it would be cheap to have the cables run from the distribution point 100m away, but when they contacted Endesa to have it installed, Endesa quoted them €80K. They ended up buying a solar energy system for €30K, which was fine for basic needs, but there would have been no chance for air conditioning or a pool.

Water:
Is there water on the property? is there an aquafer under the property? Or do you have city water? How much will it cost for a permit to drill? The drilling and pumping kit should cost less than €5K, a cistern less than €2k, but who knows what you might have to pay for the permit.

Water is yet another thing that is very oft misrepresented in land sales here. Oh, you wanted water? That'll be expensive...

Always beware of things that are represented as "gratuito" (free). They never are. And when anyone can't be specific, and speculates that something will be "cheap", then it's time to get some specifics.

Also, beware that there is often a very different price for newbie foreigners than for those who clearly know the landscape (natives). Despite what the guy at the fontanero may tell you, you don't have to pay €700 for a water pump. The shop just down the road will sell the exact same thing to you for €200. Always shop around.

There's a lot to consider, and provided the price is right and you can build a real home, it may be a great opportunity. But my only advice, having been through it before (and suffered the consequences) is not to take anyone's opinion as fact. The "facts" here vary widely, depending on who you talk to, or even which day you talk to them, and of course, what they have to gain from you.

The other thing you should be aware of is unlike in the north (England, mainland Europe), legal recourse when you are defrauded is complex and limited.

The prevailing wisdom seems to be that if you are stupid enough to allow yourself to be defrauded, then it's your own fault. So, it's better to try to avoid those costly mistakes in the first place. Don't assume someone is telling you the truth simply because they can get into trouble for lying to you. They usually get away with it.

On the upside, after many years and learning from our many mistakes, the dust is finally settling for us and we're now really enjoying this little paradise, and we're now able to avoid the majority of the downsides. The upsides, however, are worth every bit of blood spilt.

Good luck, and I hope it all works out for you.

[stew31]

Ami many thanks for taking the time to reply

we have been given contact details through the agent for a solicitor, so are going to contact them for some advice also.

With regards to the local council, I was also thinking of again perhaps asking them some questions in relation to the area and plot itself, by email, before heading out and looking at face to faces with people. There is already a large villa that has been built very close by so im hoping that water and electric shouldnt be an issue, but obviously cannot take this for granted.

Luckily we are in no rush at all for this, its something we are extremley keen on pursuing wether it would be now or in 20years time lets say. One thing is for sure we are pretty certain we want to invest in mallorca with long term considerations to move out there.

[Fredbargate]

Originally Posted by stew31 we have been given contact details through the agent for a solicitor, so are going to contact them for some advice also.

Always get your own solicitor, the agent is possibly recommending someone with an ulterior motive

[amideislas]

Originally Posted by stew31 Ami many thanks for taking the time to reply we have been given contact details through the agent for a solicitor, so are going to contact them for some advice also. With regards to the local council, I was also thinking of again perhaps asking them some questions in relation to the area and plot itself, by email, before heading out and looking at face to faces with people. There is already a large villa that has been built very close by so im hoping that water and electric shouldnt be an issue, but obviously cannot take this for granted. Luckily we are in no rush at all for this, its something we are extremley keen on pursuing wether it would be now or in 20years time lets say. One thing is for sure we are pretty certain we want to invest in mallorca with long term considerations to move out there.

I totally agree with Fred: Talk to the one solicitor who the agent sent you to, but frankly, this kind of "back scratching" is all too common here, and hiring your own solicitor give you a bit more security about whether they're truly impartial.

Unfortunately, prices are still not cheap, and Mallorca has one of the best economies in Spain at the moment, so unless there is a major shakeup (e.g., the Euro completely collapses), I tend to believe property prices are nearly at the bottom now, even though they are still a bit high. I do expect the Euro to weaken quite a bit more before the end of the year, so buying at this moment may not be the wisest move.

And you're spot-on. Take your time. Find out as much as you can. Spend time in the neighbourhood. Meet some people who live there, invite them for dinner or something. Find out what they know.

...and keep one eye on the Euro. Buying at the right moment could really be your smartest move and save you a bundle, if you pull it off just right :-)

Feel free to PM me if you have any other questions - I'll be happy to help if I can..

--Ami

[HBG]

The lady from Mallorca has given some excellent advice and I can't add to it, apart from pointing out that a foreigner buying a plot of land in Spain, and most other countries, will remain a foreigner with fewer rights than a native.

It applies especially to Valencia, the closest part of Spain to Mallorca. Without going into detail, and it is well documented; 'land grabs' are the order of the day; the local council have the power to take over your land and do what they like with it, and if they build a road over the land, you will even be required to pay for the cost of it.

It's not like the 'compulsory purchase' order in the UK, in Spain you pay for the privilege of having your land taken over by the state.

It's a bit foolish to consider buying land in Spain as an investment.

[stew31]

Originally Posted by HBG It applies especially to Valencia, the closest part of Spain to Mallorca. Without going into detail, and it is well documented; 'land grabs' are the order of the day; the local council have the power to take over your land and do what they like with it, and if they build a road over the land, you will even be required to pay for the cost of it. It's not like the 'compulsory purchase' order in the UK, in Spain you pay for the privilege of having your land taken over by the state. It's a bit foolish to consider buying land in Spain as an investment.

I have heard this regarding land can be taken in spain. Would this still be the case in the Balearics? I assume it would be. Certainley a question that would be put to the solicitor and local council. Do you know if the local councils hold details of plans for the area at all, that can be accessed by public, as they do in UK??

Its more thinking of a long term investment, I.E cheaper to buy land and build when we are ready, rather than buy a villa thats already in place. Although there are obviously advantages in buying something thats already in place.

Thanks to all who have replied, it has given us some extra questions we need to go over. With regards to the solictor who was recommened, I was certainley thinking of the case you scratch my back I scratch yours. If anyone does know of a solicitor that they can recommend then that would be great, rather than plucking one out of internet searches etc..

[amideislas]

Originally Posted by stew31 I have heard this regarding land can be taken in spain. Would this still be the case in the Balearics? I assume it would be. Certainley a question that would be put to the solicitor and local council. Do you know if the local councils hold details of plans for the area at all, that can be accessed by public, as they do in UK?? Its more thinking of a long term investment, I.E cheaper to buy land and build when we are ready, rather than buy a villa thats already in place. Although there are obviously advantages in buying something thats already in place. Thanks to all who have replied, it has given us some extra questions we need to go over. With regards to the solictor who was recommened, I was certainley thinking of the case you scratch my back I scratch yours. If anyone does know of a solicitor that they can recommend then that would be great, rather than plucking one out of internet searches etc..

Stew, whilst I've heard that it happens, I don't know of anyone it's happened to. But there is definitely some truth to it.

I do know this: here in mallorca, you never really completely "own" the property. Yes, you have title and deed, but your sovereignty over that land is subservient to local council whims.

For example, technically, virtually anything you do on the property is subject to council approval - and I mean anything - if you want to paint your lounge, you are (technically) required to get council approval, having to submit colours, types of paint you inetend to use, etc.. (although I am not aware of even one person who has ever done this).

Another example is that under the law, your property is not private. It is subject to full public access, unless of course, you buy a permit to reserve the property for your own "hunting" purposes. Figure that out.

I think the cheekiest aspect of all this is that virtually no native Mallorquin that I am aware of has ever been subject to any kind of "land grab", few actually solicit permits for anything, and are almost never inspected.

Foreign owners, however, are subject to all kinds of inspections and controls, and although I am not aware of it, possibly "land grabs" as well - but you get used to the nonsense. Despite my convictions that this is a despicable invasion of my rights as a taxpayer, it's so far not all that invasive, just unfair and a senseless waste of everyone's time and money.

I really don't know the legalities of this, but I wouldn't be entirely astonished to find that if the council decided to simply take your property for their own use, they might actually be able legally do it if they wanted to, without compensation of any kind. Especially taking it from a foreigner. But it sounds a bit far fetched to me. I can't imagine it would be that simple.

Still, I doubt there is even one privately-owned property on this entire island that is completely free of "serious" violations of the numerous laws governing land ownership, many of which completely contradict one another. That could be justification for anything...