Sam Greenfield

Hi im posting this for a friend - if anyone has any help or advice it would be gratefully received xxxxx

Its just something we are looking at and cant do anything about it just yet, but our ideal property would be to buy a finca with some land. But fincas are quite small and we would want to extend or even build another property on the land but we have heard that you cannot build bigger than the building is when you buy it. Can anyone shed some light on this please?

Thanks in advance xxxxx

spainrico

Many fincas may have a lot of land but only a small property - this is because the property was only ever intended as seasonal shelter whilst the crops were harvested.
The maximum amount of square mts that can be built on the land is often only a very small percentage - so don't think that because it is a large plot you can build whatever you like because legally you cannot.
The amount is stipulated in the escritura (deeds). It is also said that "Oh no problem, just do as you like and pay a small fine to keep the town hall sweet" But I think you will find those days have gone.
Whatever you do always take professional (and independent) legal advice. Also remember big is not always beautiful - it will cost more in annual taxes and it has to be heated in the winter!

Sam Greenfield

Thanks very much Spainrico - i dont think they want to build a massive property - but they are interested in running a business from off the land but need a tenant so to speak to live there n tend to needs x

Fred James

The sort of property you mention is almost certainly built on "rustic" land.

In most areas it is now almost impossible to get planning permission to build on that type of land unless it is a very large plot (often over 30000m2). Existing buildings can usually be renovated so long as they follow the original plan and do not increase the built area.

It does depend on the locality as the rules do vary from one place to another, but in Andalucia the rules are very strict.

It is essential to get good professional advice before considering such a purchase - it is entirely possible that the existing building may not be legal in the first place!

snikpoh

In the Valencian region, that figure is 10000m2.

However, according to local, Spanish surveyors and architects, upwards of 90% of rustic properties in this region are illegal. This could, of course, be something trivial or something quite major so always check that the existing building is entirely legal - habitation licence, water (or rights for well water, electricity etc. etc.)

Sam Greenfield

Thank you all for your replies - my friend wants to run a business from the land - can you build agricultural buildings on land n maybe live in a static caravan ?????

lic

Don't know, but is a log cabin classed the same as a permanent structure?
If not it may be a way around the rules.

snikpoh

Yes, anything on a hard base (concrete etc.) is classed as permanent. There has been a thread on this forum about log cabins and I seem to recall that the suggestion was that they are best avoided.

There are no end of issues with log cabins, architects, council approval etc. in the Valencian region and I suspect this issue is perhaps national.

Fred James

It is not just the question of how it is constructed, it is the use it is put to.

If you build a log house on a concrete base it may be acceptable as an agricultural building but if you live in it then it becomes a vivienda and is by definition illegal as that was not the purpose for which it was built.

If you want to inhabit a building you have to have an occupation licence - you will not get that if you do not have a building licence for a vivienda.

Without that licence you are not allowed to contract for water or electricity and if the police find you living in it they can seal it to prevent you doing so.

This is not just the theory. Our English neighbours had their "Almacen" sealed by the police while they were away.

Sam Greenfield

Thanks for all your replies - gratefully received n passed on xxxxx

Tika985

I think it all depends on WHERE you buy the land. Each Spanish region, province and municipality will be slightly different.

In Asturias, it is often possible to change the use of a stable into a house if the building is near other buildings ("núcleo rural") - even the part of your finca near those other buildings may be "edificable".

If it is clearly a "finca rústica" it will often say so on the advertisement - but there is a lot of land available with ruined houses in the more remote and not so remote areas. If they want to grow orange trees, Asturias is obviously not the right choice, but everything green grows well and there are no water shortages ever...

cricketman

Asturias is a very different political environment to Andalucia/Murcia/Alicante/Valencia. Plots are clearly labelled whether they are buildable or not and the number of meters that are allowed.

This is down to the very different social history (and land ownership habits/laws). And that Asturias hasnt had a huge foreign invasion, so town halls havent been so tempted to provide illegal building permits.

HBG

We looked at a finca that was for sale a couple of years ago in inland Alicante. It was halfway up a mountain and all seemed legal, even connected to town electricity and water with a tarmac road outside.

We saw it in the summer and started the legal process with an independent lawyer who didn’t find many problems, apart from the recently installed swimming pool and a garage that had been turned into living accommodation, a kind of granny flat, which he said could be overcome by paying a fine.

It held things up a bit and we visited again in the winter. Our car got stuck in the snow halfway up the mountain and when we finally got inside the house it was the coldest place I’ve ever been in. The owner explained that neither the log man nor the Repsol man could get up the hill and the electric and water were playing up. He had been out cutting down some olive trees for the fire and the fresh wood stank the place out.

A neighbour’s tractor pulled us out of a giant pothole and we got to the flat road below and never went back. I have the greatest admiration for finca dwellers in the mountains, they’re more hardy than I am.

steviedeluxe

Possibly another reason too why Spanish prefer city-living.

Loco

Without a host of licences, certificates and written permissions everything will most likely be illegal or potentially judged to be so.

Even with all the paperwork in place many expats have recently found to thier suprise and cost that thier paperwork was issued by the local Council in breach of national law so is next to useless and in a few cases have since had their properties demolished.

My advice to anyone thinking of buying a Finca they are told they can live in is to look at the Spanish Taxmans Records and then look at STS Case law. Both are free and online.

Best Loco