WriterChick

I agree with what you've said Steve, and I also agree that ONE of the problems with the American attitude is that they feel superior/blessed because they come from 'the land of opportunity' and I agree it can grate on others Sally.

Both my parents were immigrants. Neither was in the USA for very long when I was born. They were not immigrants from the same country - they met in NYC. America has an arrogance that cannot be denied. I know it. Trust me. My mother was not white. And she had a strong accent.

I also think that little 'Ms Planet Abundance USA' can be greedy and wasteful.

I find the British to be MUCH less greedy and wasteful, as a culture.

They 'don't have enough', so they tend to be more thrifty, and recycle things... The British would often mend a hole in a sock, and the Americans would often toss it in the bin and buy a 10 pack of new socks.

My mother in law saves, mends, and recycles everything, and she would never toss anything in the bin. If she does not want something anymore, it ALL goes to a charity shop.

She lives in an extremely wealthy area, has never had to work, and has never had any financial problems, but she was born at the end of the war. Any time she opens a can of anything, she washes it out, and puts it in the garage, so the gardeners can use them for seedlings.

I'm not saying one is better than the other - just different, and it shows in the national characters.

I do get the impression that the British feel there are two ways to do everything = The British Way, and the wrong way.

I don't think America really knows what the 'American way' is yet, because it is still a teenager, and working it out.

America has a lot of issues, but at least historically they consider themselves to be 'an Immigrant Country' and the UK does NOT feel that way about themselves at all.

The British still consider themselves an empire.

Still. They do. They don't get it. They are just a small island.

They are going to leave the EU? I hope not, for their/our sake. Why are they going to leave the EU? So they can scrap EU human rights, and so no more non-British will be able to work in London? OK... good luck with that... 'British Jobs for British People'?
Trust me, if a British person would clean toilets, they would get the job over anyone from anyplace else.
Why don't they have enough British people to fill the more accredited positions in their own society?
Why do the extremely high paying and highly skilled positions go to people of other nationalities?
Look into it. Do skilled Brits leave? Do Brits not become skilled?
They need to look into that.
No one is taking anything from them. They are again in the 'not enough' mindset.

They have 'Former Empire Syndrome'.

I suspect America may be the next country to develop 'Former Empire Syndrome.'

Sally Redux

I'm not sure I agree with that.

There has been a reasonable amount of immigration to the UK over the years and despite some issues and even riots, race relations are pretty good over there all things considered.

The Empire went a long time ago and few people would seriously think it was morally defensible.

I don't know the true strength of this anti-European feeling. I suspect it is empty vessels making a lot of noise.

WriterChick

I've LIVED in five different countries, and five different states in the USA.

I've never lived anyplace that was MORE ant-immigrant than the UK. All three major political parties here are extremely anti-immigrant at the moment.

I've never lived in ANY country that was more DOWN on their country than the UK people seem to be - and I tell people here that they actually have it pretty good, and they think I'm mostly insane for saying that.

I do find the British psyche to be overly negative, and I do find the American psyche to be childishly optimistic.

Optimism is at least less depressing...

Sometimes I fantasise about putting antidepressants in the UK public water system.

Oh well... mustn't grumble?

WriterChick

The issues in the UK are not Race Based.

They are NATIONALITY BASED.

Sally Redux

The 'down on their country' bit is bad and seems to be getting worse. It is the thing I am most dreading about going back.

I guess the anti-immigrant stance is tied up with that.

I have heard plenty of anti-immigrant talk here as well though, as well as fear of socialized medicine, and wouldn't characterize things as massively more positive/optimistic except on a very superficial level.

WriterChick

It is not superficial... it is extremely embedded in the national psyche.

That is my point.

They believe it even when they face every evidence that the reality is... otherwise. Land of opportunity - end of.

My in laws, my mother and father in law, both my sister in laws, and their husbands, were all having a conversation with me about nationalism and jobs in America and Britain...

These are very well travelled, well educated, and cultured people, three of which have at one time worked outside the UK...

I told them that in NYC, if we have two job candidates, and one is born in America, and the other is born in Britain, all other aspects being equal, education, experience, whatever... We do not automatically 'default hire' the American, simply BECAUSE they are American.

First, they refused to believe me.

Then, they told me that it was wrong!

They all honestly felt that the American, in America, should get the job over ANY immigrant, simply based on their nationality of birth.

They thought it should be the LAW of any country.

I looked at all of them, and I said, 'You realise I wouldn't have a job here, right?'

Sigh.... and these are good people.

That is what is being spoon fed to the British right now, by the politicians, and the media.

You, as long as you are a white, middle class, well spoken, returning Brit, won't have any of those problems.

But, be prepared for an obscene amount of nationalism. It is happening here.

It is crazy... How can they be sooooo down on their country, and sooooo nationalistic, at the same time?

Sally Redux

I don't know. Probably a hankering for a romanticised past.

At the end of the day, you're getting out, so best to look forward. I only obsessively analyzed things in the US when I thought I was here forever.

Steve_

It's not so much a factual based thing, it's a cultural thing, British people think Britain is more important in the world than it actually is. They actually think their opinions mean something internationally, in reality it's just a talking shop at this point. Not that it's completely irrelevant, but it's not that relevant.

I remember when they were on about spending some ridiculous amount of money on renewing the nuclear deterrent and two points sprung out at me, the first was that it was needed anymore, MPs were quoting it as a "settled issue" and anyone against it was a stupid lefty Labour supporter - it was a settled issue during the Cold War, not anymore. The second point was that it enabled Britain to "remain relevant on the world stage". It's not relevant on the world stage anyway, hasn't been for years. Having nuclear weapons makes you as relevant on the world stage as Pakistan, less so in fact because you're never going to use them, Pakistan might.

All this class-based stuff, it's laughable. Having a class-based system had some purpose to it when being in the upper class meant you got to go out and take over some valuable piece of land somewhere. Now it's just a joke.

Sally Redux

We are a major player in financing the Eurovision Song Contest, that's about it

MMcD

Well that's a start......or an end

But where there's humour there's hope....

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/galler...153052&index=0

And Americans, as it's mighty ship of state sinks beneath 2 oceans, can cry with The Onion, laughing as they plunge:



http://www.theonion.com/video/jock-s...in-carl,35723/

http://www.theonion.com/video/george...f-dogs-friends

Sally Redux

Humour? That's what people actually think of the place.

MMcD

Sally Redux

If only.

Steve_

Unfortunately you made me look at the UKIP thread in the Spanish section of the forum. That's the sort of stuff no-one cares about.

MMcD

To any future ex ex-pat, heading east or west or any other direction.....

Word of (unrequested) advice from a fence straddler:

The pickets poke (and that's not the kind of poke you want, is it?). Fence straddling is an eternal, energy depleting balancing act;
Can do yourself psychological and physical harm if ambivalent, rather than unreservedly dogmatic.

Best make up ones mind about which country to hate - and then just *hate* it. Unreservedly, all out, with a vengeance. And pray it's not the one to which you're returning.
There are many on BE to emulate.
They lead the way - brook no on-the-one and on-the-other-hand, wishy, washy ambivalence.

Take it (or leave it) from one who has been there, done that.....and is impaled on the painful pickets of reason....(.ouch).