Luma

Hi there.

Are there other South Africans who moved to UK and then have/or are going to move to Australia?

Does anyone think it will be easier the second time round?

JAJ

One point to bear in mind is that if you haven't got British citizenship, you may want to think about securing this before leaving the UK (otherwise you may not be able to return). Especially if you have already been in the UK some years and have your UK permanent residence.

That also involves deciding whether you want to keep South African citizenship, and if so, taking the necessary steps on time to do so.



Jeremy

Luma

We've got British & Italian passports and we both still hold South Africa passports. Our children have British and South African passports.

Will we need to give up one of these if we become permanent residents in Australia? I think I read somewhere that Australia allows plural citizenship.

JAJ

Are both of you dual British/Italian, or is one of you British and the other Italian?

How did you (and the children) get your British and Italian citizenship alongside South African? Whether you're still South African citizens may well depend on the answer.



Getting permanent residence in a country almost never causes loss of citizenship. Applying for and obtaining another country's *citizenship* may cause loss of existing citizenship.

Australia, Italy and the UK (British citizens only) allow dual/multiple nationality. So you can have all three.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_nationality_law
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_nationality_law
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_nationality_law

However South African citizens lose their South African citizenship automatically upon acquisition of another by voluntary means, unless permission to retain South African citizenship is applied for and obtained in advance.


Jeremy

Luma

Many thanks for the links.
We will make sure we ask for permission from SA before applying for Australian citizenship

My father is Italian and my husband's father British. We were both born in South Africa.

Our children got british passports because they were born in UK and because father is British. We then applied for South African birth certificates and then South African passports for our children.

JAJ

In that case you need to be aware that any future children you have born in Australia will *not* automatically be British citizens (because your husband is British by descent). He may be able to register them as British under section 3(2) of the British Nationality Act 1981 if he has lived in the UK for three years and applies within 12 months of the child's birth.
http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/ind...tizenship.html

A different solution would involve *you* becoming naturalised British. Then any children you may have in Australia will automatically be British citizens (based on your status, not your husband's).

If you are living in the UK on your Italian passport, then be aware that citizens of other EEA countries (except Ireland) are no longer automatically given permanent resident status in the UK. You would need to apply for and be granted indefinite leave to remain (ILR) as a spouse of a British citizen.
http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk

Once you have ILR, you could apply for naturalisation immediately as long as you had three years legal residence. Becoming naturalised also means you could return to the UK independently - there is no guarantee Italian citizens will always have the rights to live in the UK that they do now.


The problem you may face in getting ILR is the 2 year probationary spouse visa period. There is a concession for those who have been married to a British citizen for 4 years, but only for those formerly living overseas. Unless the Home Office are prepared to grant discretion, there does not seem to be a simple provision in the rules for people who have come into the UK legally in another status and subseqently seek settlement on the basis of a long-standing marriage to a British citizen.

What I'm saying is that if you decide you want to go for UK permanent residence and citizenship, a consultation with an experienced immigration lawyer would likely be worthwhile.



Jeremy

bruce67

Hi Luma

We have been in the UK from Durban since 1995 and are hoping to head out to Adelaide in 2007.
I am convinced it will be a lot easier as in 1995 we arrived in the middle of winter with the clothes on our backs and 4 grand. we struggled for a couple of years to get a reasonable life style. I think moving to another country is always difficult but if you have done it before you know what it takes and are not blinded by unrealistic expectations although i would like a bit of SUNSHINE .
we have British passports(wife from northern Ireland, me by descent) I have just got my southafrican passport reinstated but will probably relinquish it if things go well and I have th option of taking up aus citizenship.

Good luck
bruce.

Luma

Hi Bruce

At the moment anywhere warm would be good - gee whizz the weathers been icy lately

We're also from KZN - I'm from Howick and my hubbie is from Port Shepstone.

We're wanting to go to Perth or nearby in WA.

Good luck with your move to Adelaide.

bruce67

Thanks
Not looking forward to this winter as I work outside most of the time.
We are giving adelaide a try as my brother has been there since feb 2004.

B.

Blue Eyed Girl

Hi Luma,

I was born in SA although I also have British Citizenship as my parents are English and my husband is English (we met in SA). We moved to the UK in 1997 and stayed there for 8 years before emigrating to Perth in August of this year. We are now moving back in middle of March 2006, as we feel, on the balance of things, England is better for us. My husband wants to return more than me, but I also want to return to be honest.

I found it harder this time around, as we didn't have any family (my husband's family are in England) and it just seemed the stakes were much higher this time around??? Going through the whole process of starting again in a new country, etc, etc was alot to put ourselves through and it was hard leaving family in 2 different countries, to go to a third one, with no family.

I think if we had to do it again, the one thing particularly we would do differently is go to Queensland instead of Perth. For more job opportunities, etc.

My experience hasn't been that positive, sorry to sound a bit gloomy!

At the end of the day, Aus will be whatever you make of it and the fact that you've already done it once, means you know what it's all about. I wish you all the best and good luck.

Luma

Hi Blue Eyed Girl

Thanks for your reply.

When we came out to the UK the first time in 1999 I was miserable and ended up going home after only 2.5 months. Then 10 months later I returned and we've been here 5.5 years.

So I know about the initital homesickness and not settling in feeling.

Luckily we do have friends in Perth and my brother-in-law and his wife are moving there in January and some of my husband's family might move over at a later stage.

My boys are are little and full of energy and I would love for them to have more of an outdoors life - so we though we would try and give it a go in Perth.

I wish you all the best with your return home to the UK. At least you know you gave it a go.

TouristTrap

Good luck to all of you. Blue-eyed girl, the pull of family is very strong, especially after a few years of being without any around, I know, from personal experience, how hard it is.

Luma, I'm glad that you will have close family over there. I've been trying to get my inlaws to move there for yonks, but they're of the 'born in S.A., die in S.A.' mental variety, until 2 months ago that is. My BIL got hijacked in Durbs and taken to Chatties, by 3 armed men, thankfully managing to escape.

Imagine a 6 ft stoic Afrikaner boitjie blubbering on the phone to his wife that it was the most horrific experience of his life. They're now making 'emigrating' noises. Unfortunately, there is no way they could get into the US so they could join us, bar a miracle, but they could in Oz as he's got a trade.

Best of luck.

(btw, hubby is a banana boy, with an uncle who has lived in Sheppies for years).

pitchell

Hi!

We moved from Durban to the UK in 1998 and are now moving on to the Sunshine Coast in Queensland next month.

I think this time round it will be much easier because we've done the whole "Big Move" before and it doesnt seem as daunting the second time round. Plus we're going to a place that's "familiar" - much more like SA than the UK, and it's a comforting feeling I guess just feeling a little more "at home".

Also, first time we moved it was to the UK for job prospects and to escape the violent lifestyle of SA. Now it's our CHOICE to go to Australia - we don't HAVE to leave the UK. That somehow makes it all easier, I think.

Can't wait to leave the UK and start our new adventure in Oz

banjo

Hi Luma,

I'm another one who's made the move from SA (Underberg) to the UK (Swindon) and then to Australia.

I moved to the UK in 1998 and it was the easiest thing as it was just me to consider. I got married in the UK and a few years later had a baby and then I also hankered after that 'outdoor' lifestyle for my children that we had growing up. It took a couple of years and a couple of trips to SA to convince my husband, but three years later here we are.

We've been in Oz for almost two years now, and there hasn't been that many days that I haven't missed the UK. Somehow it helped having family nearby -even if they were my husbands. Australia is great on lots of different levels, and has loads of similarities to the SA, but at the end of the day it isn't a safe South Africa - which is what I think I was looking for. The countryside is lovely....but not in the same league as SA in my view. We went to the Blue Mountains and that was lovely, but doesn't even compare to the Drakensberg.

I guess you have to try it for yourself....only then can you stop saying 'what if...' but do follow Jeremys advice and leave yourself a route back just in case. I didn't and now we are looking at having to go back for three years so I can re-qualify for British Citizenship.

Incidentally, you no longer have to apply to keep your SA citizenship if you apply for the citizenship of another country. It was recently ruled as a violation of a persons rights. Have a look here:
http://www.southafrica-newyork.net/h...ualcitinfo.htm for more info.

As for me....I'm from Underberg - went to school in Kokstad, but my younger brother went to Howick. My grandparents live in Port Shepstone so we spent lots of holidays down there.

Good luck.

GRANiTe

Not to go off topic here, just want to point out to Banjo that you do still need to get a retention of citizenship letter (section 6 letter) before gaining a second citizenship. What you are referring to is something else (section 9 letter).
Details of section 9: www.southafricahouse.com/hacs/exemption9(2).htm
Details of section 6: www.southafricahouse.com/hacs/retention.htm

Regards

Grant