MarylandNed

It is actually the employer's responsibility to ask for a SIN within 3 days of the new employee starting work.

http://www.servicecanada.gc.ca/eng/a...mployers.shtml

Employers' Responsibilities At A Glance
- Ask for the SIN of new employees within three days of when they start their employment.
- Ensure that any employees that have a SIN beginning with the number “9” are authorized to work in Canada.
- Protect your employee's SIN and personnel records.
- Inform Service Canada if you suspect that a SIN is being used fraudulently.

Steve_

As far as I can tell, yes. There isn't even an equivalent to the SSN verification system as there is in the US, (and all that does is tell you if the SSN is real) - forget about the even more sophisticated systems like E-verify. You actually have to phone up an actual person who then passes you onto the CRA who then asks for the companies business number and then will at least tell you if the SIN is real. There's no automation.

At least that's what happened last time I tried. Possibly they've now got to the point of using a touch tone system, oooh.

Steve_

Didn't say it wasn't, not sure what you're getting at. The point is that you ask for the SIN but that is the only thing they're required to give you, so preventing fraud is next to impossible. You can ask for other ID but they don't have to give it, they e-mailed me over the Alberta HR guide for employers or whatever it's called and it said in there you can only require other ID if it's required to do their job, e.g. a DL for a driver.

The most you can do with a significant degree of hassle is verify that the SIN is in fact real. Given I was on the phone for ages doing it for one single person I can guarantee it happens rarely.

MarylandNed

The Social Security Administration (SSA) database in the US does more than verify if a SSN is real - it is also used to verify the immigration status associated with that SSN. I found this out the hard way whenever my daughter applied for a US federal student loan. On the loan application, she stated that she was a USC (she obtained US citizenship automatically as a minor when my wife and I became naturalized USCs). A while later she got a letter from the US Dept of Education stating that her claimed immigration status could not be verified in the SSA system. We didn't realize at the time, but when you become a USC, you are supposed to go to a local SSA office and have them update your immigration status in their database.

Steve_

That's DHS SAVE, I'm talking about the SSN verification system, it's basically a way of linking your payroll to the SSA so you can verify that the payee is associated with a real SSN. Maybe they've linked it to DHS SAVE as well now but I don't think so, that's what the I-9 and E-verify are for.

You can't even do that in Canada, you have to manually check the SIN is real.

This is the point though, there are umpteen checks in the US, so many people get confused as to which one is which, SSN verification, DHS SAVE, E-verify, I-9, etc.

In Canada there's a guy on the end of the phone after you press option "3".

MarylandNed

I don't know what you call it but I was specifically told that the SSA database is the one that records an immigration status against a SSN. The SSA is the agency that issues SSN numbers and cards. We had to take proof of our US citizenship into our local SSA office and have them update our immigration status to USCs before my daughter's US federal student loan application could be processed. Even though PRs are also eligible for federal student loans, the loan could not be processed since she was claiming to be a USC and the SSA database said she was a PR. I was told that the US Dept of Education and other US govt agencies use the SSA to confirm the immigration status associated with a SSN.

Steve_

The SSA use DHS SAVE. So when you file an SS-5 that's what they look you up with. That's where the immigration status is stored and the federal student loan system also uses DHS SAVE. http://www.uscis.gov/save

The SSN Verification System is used for payroll purposes: https://www.socialsecurity.gov/employer/ssnv.htm That is run by the SSA.

So no they don't check immigration status. Not with that system anyway.

Steve_

I assume you've seen this in the news: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/britis...ower-1.2617897

Basically CBC looking for a story, but if you read the guidance to retailers and the BC privacy case they quote, it says in great detail what the Alberta privacy commissioner told me over the phone - you can ASK to see ID but they don't have to give it unless it is "necessary". So if you went to test drive a car, they can ask to see your DL because that's "necessary" but they cannot keep a copy of it.

Same thing applies to hiring people. You can't compel them to produce ID unless it's "necessary" which producing your SIN would be.

Moreover, even IF you have a "necessary" reason you have to have a regime in place to dispose of the information after a period of time, basically when a "reasonable person" would deem it to be no longer "necessary" to retain the information.

scrubbedexpat091

While I would never let a car dealer take a copy of my license as there is no need for them to, and if they want it then I'll go elsewhere and they can lose the sale.

But for an employer, eh the background checks many places to now are more intrusive then showing some ID ever will be.