agoreira

People looking for a first time job aren't counted either, of course there will be some working on the black, but we have people here conveniently forgetting the all the unemployed that aren't even counted. They don't have any problem believing the good news stories, the bad news stories, a pack of lies. I see in La Linea they have now borrowed some money, no idea how they will pay it back, to pay the 800 odd council employees that haven't been paid for 6 months. And they are not alone, loads of cases where council employees haven't been paid, lucky they got a job, eh?

Dick Dasterdly

Unfortunately what few improvements have appeared in the unemployment figures are mainly down to non jobs, mostly temporary, many at slave labour wages, some for no wages at all !


Meanwhile the number of long term permanent jobs has continued to decrease and the numbers of long term unemployed has continued to increase, so in reality the overall trend is still downhill and a major cause for concern at a time when a few green shoots seemed to be beginning to show through.
Also as previously mentioned, there's more than a million unemployed, still not even included in the Govts figures.
It suggests that it's going to be a much harder and longer haul than many at the moment realize, just as described in the article by that guy from Barcelona.

Some of the reasons for this unfortunate trend have already been discussed, many being all to obvious, such as would be employers offering only temporary contracts at slave labour wages so the overall buying power of those who are classed as employed therefore continues to decrease.

I live in an all Spanish district, some employed, some not, but the one thing they all agree on is that the Govt is still painting a very false picture of the true situation, once again as described in the Spanish article, but in much more blunt and less complementary terms than we see on here and as I said I'm inclined to take much more notice of the P.O.V. of Spaniards who are living through this disaster on a daily basis, than a few badly informed or biased expats on here, who are a million miles from having a handle on the real situation.

However to look at the situation from a different P.O.V., then consider Portugal which is still considered to be deep in a crisis situation with 15% unemployed.
Here we have 26% plus and still no overall positive trend, so consider just what needs to happen even to approach the level of crisis in Portugal, in order to comprehend just how worrying the economic and ever increasingly worse social crisis truly is.

Domino

Sorry but you are still pounding the same old beat - Unemployment figures.
Aren't there any others in your local papers

Spain is making money from internal and external sales - using less people.

For once I don't think you are understanding what it is i am saying - I am starting feel the way Stevie does on this thread.

two tubes of toothpaste

Really, Bully, really ?

Do you know how many people PM'ed me about your Quintin Quip on the Gibraltar thread ?

Asking me if you meant Bill Quinton, Dale Quinton, Quinton Churchill, San Quinton, or Quinton Tarantino ?

It's Quentin Crisp you moron.

And before you have the urge to call me Quinton again, please read this, Sweetheart -

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Quinton

Dick Dasterdly

With all due respect your feelings and mine are hardly relevant, in comparison to those at the sharp end of this mess.

As I said, I listen to the views of Spanish who have lived here all the lives and are now living or existing through this crisis best they can for better or for worse.

I am inclined to think such people have a much better understanding of the true picture, than a handful of cherry picking, biased expats looking through rose tinted specs and with very little first hand experience or true comprehension at all regarding present day reality.

Madridboy

I'm probably about as integrated as is possible and I know first hand what it's like to have money and I now know have learned what it's like to be around the poverty line. Some of the muppets on here would deny the sun rises each day but facts are facts, regardless of how the government over here likes to spin things.
You only need to look at house sales and rentals to get a good idea of how things were compared to now. The same goes for work, a look on milanuncios.com & segundamano.com reveals outrageous exploitation and discrimination when it comes to job offers. I've even come across job ads offering €300 per month for full time work in exchange for on the job training whilst at the same time asking for people with experience.
There are far too many business owners out here who've come into a bit of money and set up on their own without having the faintest idea on how to run a business. At the other end of the scale you see bar/restaurant owners completely exploiting staff knowing full well how desperate people have become. Job offers of part time contracts whilst working many, many hours more than a full time contract have become far too frequent now.
The worst thing I'm finding in all this is that there's ZERO control over this job/staff exploitation. My partner phoned Madrid town hall to ask who official complaints should be made to regarding discriminatory job offers and NOBODY could answer him.
The government has basically given free reign to employers to do whatever the hell they want.....that is unless you speak to a couple of idiots on here who are in complete denial about everything.

Mitzyboy

On the other hand I lived next door to a Spaniard for 7 years and it was fairly clear to me that they are very blinkered and often dont accept what is going on as real. Wasn't just him, btw .... so I think it was a case of I'm OK so all is OK

Domino

as I used "Crisp" in my post it seems you are the moron

and as to your "friends" I am surprised that none of them asked why you should post especially the Mods

Is Quinton the one who brings the Sainsbury's bag or is it you ??

Mitzyboy

This little battle ends at this point please .... thank you for your cooperation

Dick Dasterdly

http://www.thelocal.es/20140416/spai...ps-in-february

Unfortunately the effects of one of the very few bright lights on the horizon which we've heard so much about lately, the so called "export boom", seems to have been snuffed out by the current import boom, resulting in a trade deficit and yet another backward step from the situation 12 months ago.

Sadly as mentioned by OPs, the topic heading is beginning to look even more misguided and premature than ever.

Whilst we can only hope for better times or some sort of economic miracle, it is increasingly difficult to see where it's going to come from at present or even make the vaguest estimate of when the economic and rarely discussed social crisis will truly come to an end.

Many pudits are now saying that the situation is so grave that the country will never fully recover.
Personally I think at some stage it eventually will, but I dread to think how long it is likely to take or consider the further social consequences to a long suffering population rapidly losing confidence and hope, which will result.

steviedeluxe

It's going to be very interesting to see the workforce figures over the next few months (and years). As stated above and according to El Pais there was an INCREASE in the workforce of 84,000 in March. This is very promising, and there are various signs the positive trend will not only continue, but increase in size.
I notice the deniers are still out, trying to claim it's still acopalypse time. Well, if that were the case, why are national Spanish tourist numbers up?? (not just external visitors to Spain). Even from an anecdotal experience here in Madrid you can notice the extra confidence and people eating and dining out. A couple of us couldn't even get into a usual local place for lunch yesterday, it was packed out. Terrazas in various areas were totally occupied. Of course you can always find excuses ("the poor have to eat and drink sometimes", "it was sunny", "maybe some of those were Spanish on holiday") but I have to say, I've known Madrid since 1990, and it's very hard not to see busy streets, bars, restaurants etc in various barrios eg Malasaña, Lavapies, Sol, Latina, Conde Duque.

steviedeluxe

You really don't get it, do you?
Another sign that the economy is bouncing back is when imports start to strengthen again (as well as the exports increasing). People with more money spend more, including imported goods. You've just shot your doomster argument down in flames....

Even from your link you mention:

agoreira

Given time I too think there will be a recovery of some sorts, but I think we can forget returning to the "boom years" anytime soon. Not really sure what the answer is, how they get out of it, I'm sure are own economic experts here will have the answer though. Money is seemingly not the answer, it has had billions and billions thrown at it over the years and that has been mismanaged, squandered, lined people's pockets etc, so another tranche of money would probably end up in the same pockets. People talk of avoiding taxes as a sort of badge of honour, can't remember the figures, but I think it was estimated around 25%(?) of GDP lost in unpaid taxes, I fail to see why Spain has such a problem collecting taxes. There will always be tax avoidance, everywhere, but Spain seems to be in a league of it's own.

jackytoo

Well Stevie it was A public holiday and it's a capital City as I have said before even in third world countries the streets and cafés etc. are bustling.

They keep saying the tourist figures are up but it doesn't seem the make any difference to jobs. One of the main tourist areas, Andalucia saw a rise in unemployment.

steviedeluxe

BINGO!!!

Although you still haven't quite managed to find an answer to "why are national Spanish tourist numbers up??" if things are really not improving?????