Banking new to UK
Apr 13th 2014, 11:46 pm
#46
Was in Canada, now home.
Joined: Aug 2011
Location: Devon
Posts: 3,388
Re: Banking new to UK
It's the same test, but the difference is if you do the test within the first year, you're a licensed driver already, so you don't have do display "L" plates while you're learning or (for Northern Ireland) "R" plates for the first year; along with the restrictions that go along with those plates. Thus no 45 mph for a year restriction. This only applies in Northern Ireland, but I didn't know that when posting it - all of my family first got their licences in Northern Ireland so that's what I was familiar with.
Apr 15th 2014, 8:04 pm
#47
Retired
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 34,649
Re: Banking new to UK
JAJ, you are adamant in your protestations against scaremongering. I think you will find most agree with you. Scaremongering (especially by those who may ultimately benefit from it) can lead to unfortunate circumstances. Witness those who were wrongly enrolled in the 2009 OVDP and paid a high price due to scaremongering advice.
JAJ, whilst scaremongering is distasteful, I find it also distasteful to assure USCs that they will have absolutely no problems in the future regards UK banking as a result of FATCA when, in fact, we do not know for certain whether this is true or not.
JAJ, whilst scaremongering is distasteful, I find it also distasteful to assure USCs that they will have absolutely no problems in the future regards UK banking as a result of FATCA when, in fact, we do not know for certain whether this is true or not.
Apr 15th 2014, 9:45 pm
#48
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Apr 2011
Location: The Shire
Posts: 1,117
Re: Banking new to UK
I think we agree on most aspects of this. I don't think anyone can give absolute assurances about the future. Except to observe that if FATCA was going to cause the problems some people expect in countries like the U.K., it would probably have happened before now. The standing advice to any U.S. citizen living overseas is to stay informed, be discerning, and respect U.S. law - but don't fear it.
I've had the opportunity for some casual, very off-the-record conversations with several bankers in the UK. Those individuals were not in the bank offices/sections directly handling the implementation of FATCA, but I had the feeling they were not unfamiliar with the situation.
There is the scaremongering found on some sites that all banks are going to use any excuse to identify anyone as a US Person, thereby assuring the bank has a full 'CYA' position if challenged by the US. My impression from those conversations is the banks, or at least these banks, intend to play it very much according to the HMRC guidance (no surprises there). While they may have already begun, ahead of schedule, identifying USPs when new accounts are being opened, they intend to play the 'search for USPs' within established accounts very much by the guidance. Personally, while I understand the banks may fear adverse consequences from not abiding by the rules, they also appear to be somewhat unhappy with the US and the rules for all USPs resident in the UK. They will play by the rules, but are not going to go 'above and beyond requirements' and be overly informative just to win favour. One would almost have the impression of a 'work to rule' mentality. They appear to have 'respect' (interpret that as 'distrust') for what could come out of the US as this unfolds. My impression also is they see the OECD proposal as inevitable but have little problems with it, and see it as an extension of the reporting within the EU where the common practice of reporting non-resident account holders is in place today.
Of course, this is casual impressions from some bankers, and does not represent a factual definition of what these banks, or any bank, may decide to do once things are up and rolling. Again, my impression is the searching for USPs will not be completed for another 18 to 20 months, at least.
The other comment I have, which comes from no particular conversations, is with everything on the IRS/Treasury plate (reduced budgets, Obamacare, etc.), the IRS/Treasury may cherry pick some information from the FFIs, but the vast majority of information from the FFIs may lay unattended on some hard disc, somewhere deep in the bowels, for years.
My main dissatisfaction will come if or when I am asked by a bank/building society to sign a statement voiding my data/privacy rights. That will not sit well.
Apr 16th 2014, 12:27 am
#49
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 264
Re: Banking new to UK
Agreed.
I've had the opportunity for some casual, very off-the-record conversations with several bankers in the UK. Those individuals were not in the bank offices/sections directly handling the implementation of FATCA, but I had the feeling they were not unfamiliar with the situation.
There is the scaremongering found on some sites that all banks are going to use any excuse to identify anyone as a US Person, thereby assuring the bank has a full 'CYA' position if challenged by the US. My impression from those conversations is the banks, or at least these banks, intend to play it very much according to the HMRC guidance (no surprises there). While they may have already begun, ahead of schedule, identifying USPs when new accounts are being opened, they intend to play the 'search for USPs' within established accounts very much by the guidance. Personally, while I understand the banks may fear adverse consequences from not abiding by the rules, they also appear to be somewhat unhappy with the US and the rules for all USPs resident in the UK. They will play by the rules, but are not going to go 'above and beyond requirements' and be overly informative just to win favour. One would almost have the impression of a 'work to rule' mentality. They appear to have 'respect' (interpret that as 'distrust') for what could come out of the US as this unfolds. My impression also is they see the OECD proposal as inevitable but have little problems with it, and see it as an extension of the reporting within the EU where the common practice of reporting non-resident account holders is in place today.
Of course, this is casual impressions from some bankers, and does not represent a factual definition of what these banks, or any bank, may decide to do once things are up and rolling. Again, my impression is the searching for USPs will not be completed for another 18 to 20 months, at least.
The other comment I have, which comes from no particular conversations, is with everything on the IRS/Treasury plate (reduced budgets, Obamacare, etc.), the IRS/Treasury may cherry pick some information from the FFIs, but the vast majority of information from the FFIs may lay unattended on some hard disc, somewhere deep in the bowels, for years.
My main dissatisfaction will come if or when I am asked by a bank/building society to sign a statement voiding my data/privacy rights. That will not sit well.
I've had the opportunity for some casual, very off-the-record conversations with several bankers in the UK. Those individuals were not in the bank offices/sections directly handling the implementation of FATCA, but I had the feeling they were not unfamiliar with the situation.
There is the scaremongering found on some sites that all banks are going to use any excuse to identify anyone as a US Person, thereby assuring the bank has a full 'CYA' position if challenged by the US. My impression from those conversations is the banks, or at least these banks, intend to play it very much according to the HMRC guidance (no surprises there). While they may have already begun, ahead of schedule, identifying USPs when new accounts are being opened, they intend to play the 'search for USPs' within established accounts very much by the guidance. Personally, while I understand the banks may fear adverse consequences from not abiding by the rules, they also appear to be somewhat unhappy with the US and the rules for all USPs resident in the UK. They will play by the rules, but are not going to go 'above and beyond requirements' and be overly informative just to win favour. One would almost have the impression of a 'work to rule' mentality. They appear to have 'respect' (interpret that as 'distrust') for what could come out of the US as this unfolds. My impression also is they see the OECD proposal as inevitable but have little problems with it, and see it as an extension of the reporting within the EU where the common practice of reporting non-resident account holders is in place today.
Of course, this is casual impressions from some bankers, and does not represent a factual definition of what these banks, or any bank, may decide to do once things are up and rolling. Again, my impression is the searching for USPs will not be completed for another 18 to 20 months, at least.
The other comment I have, which comes from no particular conversations, is with everything on the IRS/Treasury plate (reduced budgets, Obamacare, etc.), the IRS/Treasury may cherry pick some information from the FFIs, but the vast majority of information from the FFIs may lay unattended on some hard disc, somewhere deep in the bowels, for years.
My main dissatisfaction will come if or when I am asked by a bank/building society to sign a statement voiding my data/privacy rights. That will not sit well.
Also, you may be very right that it's all just scaremongering the claims that they're going to possibly fire US citizens as customers.
Apr 16th 2014, 4:38 pm
#50
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Oct 2007
Location: Charlotte,NC
Posts: 1,717
Re: Banking new to UK
From my perspective within the offshore hedge fund industry - funds will be kicking out those who are considered recaltricant - those who will not provide certification of US/Non US. They do not want to have to get into the reporting and would rather rid themselves of the business than deal with the burden.
I agree with you OAP that it is "according to the requirements and no more".
I agree with you OAP that it is "according to the requirements and no more".
Apr 17th 2014, 4:35 am
#51
Retired
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 34,649
Re: Banking new to UK
Thank you very much for the information, it sounds like I have no real worries then. One possible option I have is, looking at some bank sites, their applications ask specifically about a SECOND citizenship, not to list "all" citizenships. I can put Ireland there, and I'm not lying - they have no line for a third LOL.
And even if the bank does not know you are a U.S. citizen, you should ensure you declare income from the account on your U.S. tax return, and include it in any information reporting you may have to do (FBAR, form 8938, etc). If they do know you are American, you may at some point to be asked to complete a W-9 giving them your U.S. Social Security Number. You also need to do your own due diligence to avoid any U.K. investments that have, or could potentially have, adverse U.S. tax consequences.
Last edited by JAJ; Apr 17th 2014 at 4:39 am.
Apr 17th 2014, 7:12 am
#52
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 264
Re: Banking new to UK
You will have to decide how to handle it day to day, but if you have British and/or Irish citizenship, you are probably not under any obligation to declare unprompted the fact that you are a U.S. citizen to any foreign bank. However, if asked the question are you a U.S. citizen, you should in general tell the truth. Assuming you want to keep your United States citizenship (most people do) you should not do anything to suggest a different intention. As of now, it's not State Department policy to actively seek out potential loss of citizenship scenarios, most of the time, but policy could change in the future. Search for "potentially expatriating act."
And even if the bank does not know you are a U.S. citizen, you should ensure you declare income from the account on your U.S. tax return, and include it in any information reporting you may have to do (FBAR, form 8938, etc). If they do know you are American, you may at some point to be asked to complete a W-9 giving them your U.S. Social Security Number. You also need to do your own due diligence to avoid any U.K. investments that have, or could potentially have, adverse U.S. tax consequences.
And even if the bank does not know you are a U.S. citizen, you should ensure you declare income from the account on your U.S. tax return, and include it in any information reporting you may have to do (FBAR, form 8938, etc). If they do know you are American, you may at some point to be asked to complete a W-9 giving them your U.S. Social Security Number. You also need to do your own due diligence to avoid any U.K. investments that have, or could potentially have, adverse U.S. tax consequences.
Anyway, yes, I'm aware that implying if outright asked that I'm not a US citizen is considered potentially expatriating. I don't plan to lie or break any laws, I'm not the type - at all. I just wanted advice on how to make life relatively painless, paperwork wise and even getting access to banking wise.
The US, I should note, does NOT kick you out any more for potentially expatriating acts (except for treason and a couple others). And if they do? So what, at that point I've still got lots of options on where to go if they decide they really don't want me I have access to all of Europe. Kick me out US? Good riddance.
